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> Generic Star Trek, The Contractual Obligation Thread
Svein
post Jul 25 2007, 05:34 PM
Post #181


I'm sorry; I meant, "Drop dead, *comrade*."
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I may be sad but....

Some one just gave me the entire series of Enterprise... And I have to say... I'm enjoying it...
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Omniscia
post Jul 25 2007, 06:38 PM
Post #182


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I wanted to, but as soon as that Rod Steward sound-alike started crooning that Dianne Warren theme song, I knew it wasn't to be.
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Svein
post Jul 26 2007, 06:35 AM
Post #183


I'm sorry; I meant, "Drop dead, *comrade*."
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QUOTE (Omniscia @ Jul 25 2007, 07:38 PM)
I wanted to, but as soon as that Rod Steward sound-alike started crooning that Dianne Warren theme song, I knew it wasn't to be.
*

I've managed to get past that...
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Raven
post Jul 26 2007, 08:30 AM
Post #184


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Enterprise got better, from a fan point of view, as it went along. The Temporal Cold War stuff was bobbins, but the Xindi (sp?) arc was quite good and some of the stories in the fourth season were good as well (although they were complete fan wank).

When it fell down it was for the same reasons Voyager did (a lack of continuity and poor use of the supporting characters).
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Omniscia
post Jul 27 2007, 04:43 AM
Post #185


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QUOTE (Raven @ Jul 26 2007, 04:30 AM)
When it fell down it was for the same reasons Voyager did (a lack of continuity and poor use of the supporting characters).
*


And a finale which relied too heavily on characters borrowed from TNG. Neither of the above-referenced shows went out completely on their own terms.
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Raven
post Jul 27 2007, 08:45 AM
Post #186


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QUOTE (Omniscia @ Jul 27 2007, 05:43 AM)
And a finale which relied too heavily on characters borrowed from TNG. Neither of the above-referenced shows went out completely on their own terms.
*


As astoundingly bad as the last episode of Enterprise was, I don't think it can't be used to judge an entire series.

How did the finale of Voyager borrow from TNG btw?
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Omniscia
post Jul 27 2007, 07:24 PM
Post #187


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QUOTE (Raven @ Jul 27 2007, 04:45 AM)
As astoundingly bad as the last episode of Enterprise was, I don't think it can't be used to judge an entire series.

How did the finale of Voyager borrow from TNG btw?
*


I'm not judging an entire series based on the finale. For me, it was merely the last gasp of a lost opportunity marked more by tedium than compelling drama. I watched it several times during each of its seasons, giving it additional chances to improve, but it never caught fire for me.

As for Voyager, it didn't borrow quite as blatantly, but it did feature Reg Barclay and the Borg Queen, neither of whom really work for me outside of their natural environment.

Granted, I loved DS9, which stole one character from TNG for the entirety of its run, and another for about half. Still, they weren't shoe-horned into the plot when the characters native to the series didn't work out; they were allowed to develop beyond their archetype.

Of course, then TNG had to go and shoe-horn Worf into every movie except Generations with a series of lackluster, unconvincing excuses.
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Raven
post Jul 28 2007, 10:54 AM
Post #188


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QUOTE (Omniscia @ Jul 27 2007, 08:24 PM)
I'm not judging an entire series based on the finale. For me, it was merely the last gasp of a lost opportunity marked more by tedium than compelling drama. I watched it several times during each of its seasons, giving it additional chances to improve, but it never caught fire for me.


With the exception of the finale, it genuinely did get better as went along, and there were some very good stories, but it also got more inaccessible to a general audience because it went too far in pandering to the fans. To get the most out of the final series you really had to know a lot about Trek history and I'm sure that contributed to its downfall.

The last episode wasn't an episode of Enterprise, it was a Next Generation episode that used the Enterprise cast, and I can fully understand why they [the cast] were so pissed off with it.

QUOTE
As for Voyager, it didn't borrow quite as blatantly, but it did feature Reg Barclay and the Borg Queen, neither of whom really work for me outside of their natural environment.


I don't think it's borrowing from TNG to have characters cross over from one show to another when they are all set in the same universe at the same time. Barclay was in a number of Voyager episodes and I believe he became a part of that show as much as Worf or O'Brian did DS9 (I also think they rounded out his character better in Voyager than they did in TNG because of the increased focus they put on his character).

I never really saw the point of the Borg Queen, even in First Contact - good though she was in that - she was only really there to put a face of the Borg for the general audience. The Borg always worked best for me when they were antonymous, like they were in the Best of Both Worlds or the Enterprise episode Regeneration. Once they put a face on them, in I, Borg, Descent and most of the Voyager episodes it just undermined their menace.

QUOTE
Granted, I loved DS9, which stole one character from TNG for the entirety of its run, and another for about half. Still, they weren't shoe-horned into the plot when the characters native to the series didn't work out; they were allowed to develop beyond their archetype.


So you're saying Michael Dorn wasn't bought into DS9 to hep the ratings?!
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Raven
post Jul 28 2007, 10:58 AM
Post #189


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I've moved all of the Enterprise comments out of the Star Trek XI thread into the generic Trek thread.
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Omniscia
post Jul 29 2007, 02:05 AM
Post #190


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Firstly, I support your moving the comments. But that's beside the point.

I do not deny that they inserted Dorn in there for ratings reasons, but they did move it beyond "Look, it's Worf, on a space station!" and give him some room to grow.
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DOD-MDK
post Jul 30 2007, 12:39 AM
Post #191


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QUOTE (Raven @ Jul 27 2007, 03:45 AM)
As astoundingly bad as the last episode of Enterprise was, I don't think it can't be used to judge an entire series.

How did the finale of Voyager borrow from TNG btw?
*

Borg, The future versions of themselves just like in "All Good Things". Barclay
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Raven
post Jul 30 2007, 07:57 PM
Post #192


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QUOTE (DOD-MDK @ Jul 30 2007, 01:39 AM)
Borg, The future versions of themselves just like in "All Good Things". Barclay
*


My God, you're right!

And they had Klingons and Romulans too! They must have been plagiarising The Next Generation!

But hang on! Klingons and Romulans were in Star Trek, so that must mean that The Next Generation that was plagiarising Star Trek!

OR

They were just set in the same universe so they used the same characters . . . wink.gif
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Raven
post Jul 31 2007, 10:58 AM
Post #193


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Expendable.
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Svein
post Jul 31 2007, 11:31 AM
Post #194


I'm sorry; I meant, "Drop dead, *comrade*."
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QUOTE (Raven @ Jul 28 2007, 11:54 AM)
With the exception of the finale, it genuinely did get better as went along, and there were some very good stories, but it also got more inaccessible to a general audience because it went too far in pandering to the fans.  To get the most out of the final series you really had to know a lot about Trek history and I'm sure that contributed to its downfall.

*

Great... so I've just started watching the Xindi stuff now, and it gets better and then sucks at the end?

Bollox!
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Raven
post Jul 31 2007, 12:49 PM
Post #195


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QUOTE (Svein @ Jul 31 2007, 12:31 PM)
Great...  so I've just started watching the Xindi stuff now, and it gets better and then sucks at the end?

Bollox!
*


No, the Xindi arc is self contained, that works very well.

It's only the last episode of season 4 that really sucks, you've got a bit of a way to go yet!
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