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> Ricky Gervais, Is he like Marmite?
Love him, hate him?
Love him, hate him?
Comedy genius [ 35 ] ** [26.92%]
I like him [ 46 ] ** [35.38%]
S'ok [ 12 ] ** [9.23%]
The Office was good but he's a one trick pony [ 19 ] ** [14.62%]
Don't get him [ 1 ] ** [0.77%]
Not funny at all [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Didn't even like The Office [ 4 ] ** [3.08%]
He's a cunt [ 9 ] ** [6.92%]
Don't care [ 4 ] ** [3.08%]
Total Votes: 130
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KINGofCOMEDY
post Aug 19 2005, 09:04 PM
Post #196





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Grammar and spelling do not an opinion make, grow up- my point was not hidden by my poor grammatication as i think you are well aware. Maybe the subject matter hit too close to home and one is clutching at straws...just maybe.

Well Blind 1/0 is the first person to give the other side of this argument with any clout and commented alot more succinctly than i have previously. And as for my tone, well, what can i say i'm crying on the inside i guess.

I have to admitt my "beef" is more with Black Books than Spaced as i like Jessica Stevenson and Mark Heap. Though i wouldn't agree that Spaced is "A more subtle" sitcom i would agree that the style is different and therefor in direction can be appreciated, my main " beef" with it is that i felt it...well that Simon Pegg isn't funny ( an opinion)
However Black books is a conventional situation comedy and as such open to all the criticsms bought with the genre- in that i feel its a poorly constructed poorly excuted sitcom, with the same "quirky" characters that make all you "look at my white wine...DON'T LOOK" people lap it up...YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE...YEA I'M LOOKING AT YOU!

Somebody commented on the fact that that they thought i couldn't get a "gig" because i mentioned that the industry is biased in its nepotistic nature. Obviously you are not somebody who has tried to pursue a career in media as it doesn't matter if you want to be a runner or an editor ...its...ya know...really really hard.

And yea i guess i am a comedy purist ..i ADMIT IT...i'm that fascist bastard saying that comedy has to be funny...i know, i belong with dinosaurs.

And spacedgurl i was comparing this country's comedic product with , and i know an unfair juxtaposition, the americans. But i believe the problem with this country is diversity.
we are too restrictive in many areas, a problem that national institution are aware of, its a historical thing, i don;t expect alot of people to understand. However, that is not to be condescending, its just a reality.

But the american product is alot more diverse,and though they have a lot more money to play with, they appreciate nationally a more diverse spectrum of comedian ( www.comedycentral.com ).

But i guess that has alot to do with blah blah blah, and i KNOW some wee Jock McPoop will make some comment about me "liking them so much why don;t you go over there" or even better " yea your as dumb as a yank"...sorry to steal your thunder

and to Blind 1/O - you can't like something because you like Simon Pegg- i was horrified by Shaun of the Dead as it was testimony to their anal retentive ideals of comedy ( except for the "sit down with a cup of tea until it all blows over"line- which was just the best part of the film and funny as heck!) a comedy so bad that it incorporated a terrible dramatic arc which was poorly executed ( has anyone seen Dusk till Dawn, granted a darker movie, but its intentions were so much better delievered) about the "zombie-afying" of his mother and step-dad..what the ..freak? who cares??...and a waste of a bloody good cinematographer too boot.

And to answer a question of my present likes...ummm Teachers was fun, not funny but fun,Max and Paddy was funny ( i know you'll love that), Phenoix Nights again was funny at times,The office was funny but not rewatchable...i gues i'm a fan of the old school ( OFH,Red Dwarf,Brittas Empire, BLACK ADDER GOES FORTH,Fawlty Towers,) and american comedy Curb,Seinfeld, Scrubs,Simpsons,South Park,Rhoda,Cheers,M*A*S*H)

and Blind 1/O red dwarf ...last years...its like having a kid...when they get some chick pregnant when they're 19 ...remember all the days when they were soo cute in their nappies with fondness.....you know what i mean?

no more Tah-ra's...people are starting to abuse them...

This post has been edited by KINGofCOMEDY: Aug 19 2005, 09:11 PM
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Chapman Baxter
post Aug 19 2005, 09:26 PM
Post #197


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Hi King of C

This is getting pretty off topic for a Ricky Gervais thread. Why don't you start a new thread on the state of British comedy and tell us what you think should be done about it there?
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Stella MM
post Aug 19 2005, 10:40 PM
Post #198


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QUOTE (KINGofCOMEDY @ Aug 19 2005, 10:04 PM)
Grammar and spelling do not an opinion make, grow up- my point was not hidden by my poor grammatication as i think you are well aware. Maybe the subject matter hit too close to home and one is clutching at straws...just maybe.

Well Blind 1/0 is the first person to give the other side of this argument with any clout and commented alot  more succinctly than i have previously. And as for my tone, well, what can i say i'm crying on............
*

Zzzzz. Wake me up when you find a point, there's a love.
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superfurryandy
post Aug 19 2005, 11:25 PM
Post #199





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QUOTE (KINGofCOMEDY @ Aug 19 2005, 10:04 PM)
And yea i guess i am a comedy purist ..i ADMIT IT...i'm that fascist bastard saying that comedy has to be funny...i know, i belong with dinosaurs.
*

So, because you don't find something funny, it isn't funny, and everyone that does find it funny is wrong?

And you still haven't told me why I should look for a job.
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Blind I/O
post Aug 19 2005, 11:49 PM
Post #200


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It's I/O. Aye-yo.
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pots
post Aug 20 2005, 12:14 AM
Post #201


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QUOTE (KINGofCOMEDY @ Aug 19 2005, 10:04 PM)
Grammar and spelling do not an opinion make, grow up- my point was not hidden by my poor grammatication.

huh? well poor spelling and 'grammatication' certainly make it harder to understand what you're trying to say. this is your third post that i've still not been able to make head nor tail of. you don't like black books? ok, fine. each to their own i guess. i just don't get why you feel the need to come here and tell us that.

and your arguments are pretty weak - american comedy is 'diverse'? so that'll be all the black or asian characters in friends you're talking about there, then? british comedy is far more diverse and takes far more risks - sure, we have 'my family' but we also have 'i'm alan partridge' and 'the fast show'. both are a hell of a lot more inventive in one episode than 'will and grace' has been in it's entire run. now i love seinfeld as much as the next man, but its strength is in the writing, not in any arbitrary idea of 'diversity'. i like it because its funny, in the same way anybody here likes certain sitcoms - because they find them funny. yeah, black books, father ted, nathan barley ( i bet you loved that one ) we watch them because they are funny, not because we are trying to fit in, or be different, or whyever else you may think we watch them.

so its hard to make a career in the media is it? well it helps if you can string a coherent sentence together and not go off on crazy unrelated "look at my white wine...DON'T LOOK" people lap it up...YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE...YEA I'M LOOKING AT YOU! tangents. i can only imagine how taxing it must have been for you to write that whole post in one go. best have a little rest before you attempt another. maybe you need to watch your brittas empire box set and dream of the halcyon days of britcom, when our canned laughter, hackneyed plots and cliche characters ruled the airwaves.

and anyway, talking of spelling - if you're going to name yourself after a seinfeld character, at least get it right. its not castanza, its costanza. as i said earlier.

pip pip
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Shrubbery
post Aug 20 2005, 12:52 AM
Post #202


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At least good to finally seeing somebody else who doesn't like Black books..
It's very much overrated...just like Father Ted. Bottom has already done this thing to death..so I'm not very fond of these. It's not bad..but it's not very good either. Spaced at least tried something new..and did it very well too.

60% of Shaun Of The Dead was great and 40 not so great. It does get way too dark in the end. But I'm glad other people like it so much...I like it..but I felt it could have been much better still.

Simon Pegg is great though..end of story.

The problem with american series is that they run for too long. Other than that..there's a lot of good american shows too. Just learn to not water EVERYTHING out.

But yes, continue...I just needed to say that.
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Blind I/O
post Aug 20 2005, 01:00 AM
Post #203


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QUOTE (Shrubbery @ Aug 20 2005, 01:52 AM)
It's very much overrated...just like Father Ted. Bottom has already done this thing to death..

Done what?

I understand your dislike of Black Books, it's not everyone's cuppa tea. But Father Ted? That's classic comedy. Maybe I'm not plugged into the hype enough, but I wouldn't say it's overrated.
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Hobbes
post Aug 20 2005, 12:42 PM
Post #204


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Yeah, F to the T was brilliant. You only need to read Ade's sig to realise that.

And say what you like about old comedies (disliking them I mean), but I thought that The Two Ronnies and Porridge were excellent, and some of the funniest comedies I've seen. However, you cannot say the same for all the so-called 'classics' that the British public adore - let's not forget that in the 'Greatest british sitcom' poll, The Vicar of fucking Dibley beat Father Ted, Yes Minister and many other brilliant shows. The British public liking something does not make it good - case in point Catherine Tate.
OFH is OK in moderation, but the whole thing has been done to death and beyond, with 80 million re-runs, specials etc. Some of the older episodes were genuinely amusing, but by no means is it the benchmark.
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Shrubbery
post Aug 20 2005, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE (Blind I/O @ Aug 20 2005, 02:00 AM)
Done what?

I understand your dislike of Black Books, it's not everyone's cuppa tea. But Father Ted? That's classic comedy. Maybe I'm not plugged into the hype enough, but I wouldn't say it's overrated.
*


I like many things about the whole black books plot. What I don't like is that they use the same humour in these shows over and over..At least Father Ted came out earlier. The concept is new, but the jokes are old. I guess that is my problem. They all offer something new, but it dies fast...cause they use the same ideas as sooo many shows before them, just in a different setting.
Spaced offered something new and did it really well...and I might still be living in a world of illusions when I think a comedy will try something new and actually still be funny.
I feel I'm being harsh here..cause I am at least to a certain degree entertained by BB and FT.

About the overrated thing..well that's just a silly way of saying that I'm not impressed. It's just that everyone I asked about FT told me it was hilarious..and well..it has great moments. FT also came very high on the greatest british sitcom poll which is...well ok when you see what else came on top there. But the bad acting in FT often makes it not work for me too..
But hey, I'm not saying this is crap, cause it's not. It's good, but just never great..at least not for my part.

This post has been edited by Shrubbery: Aug 20 2005, 05:03 PM
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KINGofCOMEDY
post Aug 21 2005, 12:26 PM
Post #206





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ok...for freak sake
1)Grammatication

\Gram*mat"i*ca"tion\, n. A principle of grammar; a grammatical rule. [Obs.] --Dalgarno.

2) Thank you Shrubbery- maybe my brain fails me and my point is completely overshadowed by me having the intellectual capacity of eye fo newt but...i really don;t think so.



QUOTE
well it helps if you can string a coherent sentence together and not go off on crazy unrelated "look at my white wine...DON'T LOOK" people lap it up...YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE...YEA I'M LOOKING AT YOU! tangents.


You say this is unrelated but you understood what it meant- don't be silly billy. The point of these "crazy unrelated tangents" were to illustrate the intention and subtext of these programmes. As Shrubbery and someone else mentioned without all the "tangents" that BB has its moments ( did anyone see Dylan Morans stand-up on Paramount- funny stuff , early days though) but as they have the same actors in every single show there is a lack of DIVERSITY as the same interpreation of comedy is being produced- that s not a difficult point to understand.

And how can you compare FT to BB thats just crazy!- Father Ted was so much more DIVERSE as a situation comedy.

Brittas Empire, yes had some sterotypically gay characters but it still had some very interesting and decadent plot lines and characters that haven't been matched in a long time.

QUOTE
and your arguments are pretty weak - american comedy is 'diverse'? so that'll be all the black or asian characters in friends you're talking about there, then? british comedy is far more diverse and takes far more risks - sure, we have 'my family' but we also have 'i'm alan partridge' and 'the fast show'.


My arguement is not weak- American comedy is alot more diverse- you talking about racial diiversity but thats another KIND of diveristy- you see a word can have many meaning determined by its context rolleyes.gif - so i was talking about comedic diversity as the american sitcoms may not stray to far away from the conventional sitcom format in the mainstream but they are still alot better than our mainstream efforts- and as far as the alternative comedy it is a lot better also shows like Larry Saunders (Spinal -tap as the movie of the same format) we the originators of a style that The Office, though funny, could not match.

And if you want to talk about RACIAL DIVERSITY- they have many shows in the U.S The Bernie Mack Show,The David Chappele Show, In Living Color, My Wife and Kids, Curb etc that have a Diversity within the show and its writing teams-

And yea british comedy is sooo diverse- shows like The Crouches being an example of why it really REALLY REALLY isn't- i have never seen anything more abhorrent- written by a all-white writing team and african-carribean characters within a mainstream sitcom- this is not diversity this is mockery, and this country is so good at subliminal mockery- i mean "the Crouches" where did they get that name from..you don't have to be a brain surgeon.

WE NEED DIVERSITY IN THE WRITING TEAMS- STYLES AND THE ACTUAL PEOPLE
AS THESE SHOWS ARE REPRODUCING THE SAME IDEAS AS WE AS PEOPLE HAVE FEW INSPRIRATIONS SO THERE IS A NEED TO SPREAD THE OPPURTUNITY TO MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH OR IT DRIES UP.


How can you use Friends as some kind of sarcastic example of diveristy when shows such as Friends were intentionally created to be a big imperialistic band wagon to have you all in star bucks and coffee houses and buying your clothes from gap and selfridges and acting like your stupid because its cool even though you are highly educated and saying things like "Bridgette Jones moment and your such a Pheobe" and so on...SORRY ANOTHER TANGENT FOR YA--LOVE IT!!

is that everything oh yea

Blind sorry I/O...happy? biggrin.gif

If this AGAIN doesn't make sense...i apologise...

sorry had to add...alan patridge was disgustingly brilliant- brilliantly acted and written and steve coogan is a genius...having that as our past- BB and Green Wing and Bears Tale and whatever else just makes me feel really teary eyed

This post has been edited by KINGofCOMEDY: Aug 21 2005, 12:46 PM
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Sean of the Dead
post Aug 21 2005, 12:35 PM
Post #207


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I find it a tad saddening that this is the only topic you've posted on KINGofCOMEDY...

Anyway, this is the last in the current series this week?
Ah, soup.
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Blind I/O
post Aug 21 2005, 12:41 PM
Post #208


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Yep - mmm Patrick Stewart...

And thank you KoC. No big deal. You're stll not coming off as any less of a twat, though, which is a pity, because your point of view is interesting.
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Clart
post Aug 21 2005, 12:44 PM
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QUOTE (KINGofCOMEDY @ Aug 21 2005, 01:26 PM)
And how can you compare FT to BB thats just crazy!
*


Given that the first series of Black Books was co-written by Graham Linehan, I think it's a natural comparison to want to make.
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pots
post Aug 21 2005, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE (KINGofCOMEDY @ Aug 21 2005, 01:26 PM)
You say this is unrelated but you understood what it meant

er, no. thats why i keep saying i can't understand what you're trying to say. bunging in a few long words you've learnt out of the dictionary ( "decadent plot lines"? ) is no substitute for a well written, coherent argument.

for example - "The point of these "crazy unrelated tangents" were to illustrate the intention and subtext of these programmes. As Shrubbery and someone else mentioned without all the "tangents" that BB has its moments ( did anyone see Dylan Morans stand-up on Paramount- funny stuff , early days though) but as they have the same actors in every single show there is a lack of DIVERSITY as the same interpreation of comedy is being produced- that s not a difficult point to understand". well i've read it three or four times and its only starting to make sense. all british comedy has the same actors and therefore is equally unfunny? right? so 'black books' is the same as 'how do you want me?' is it? and 'father ted', 'black books' and 'big train', all sharing the same writer, are identical are they?
QUOTE
And how can you compare FT to BB thats just crazy!- Father Ted was so much more DIVERSE as a situation comedy.

well as clart said, they share a writer. who also wrote for 'the fast show'. and helped out with 'shaun of the dead'. god, so much nepotism!

so anyway, this idea of 'diversity' you keep coming out with - the 'friends' example, and the ones you came out with, prove the same point. in america you have the black comedy and the white comedy, and very little crossover. sure, your bill cosbys, eddie murphys, chris rocks, etc, make it, but on the whole, like american society, it is still pretty segregated. and uk comedy isn't so much better. but it just seems a nonsense argument to claim that us comedy is far more diverse. and remember, for every 'curb', 'seinfeld' ( if thats not a basic sitcom format, i don't know what is ) and 'larry sanders', there are a hundred 'friends', 'joeys', 'will and graces', 'married with children', etc etc etc ( feel free to fill in your own repetetive, formulaic, three people on a sofa comedy ).

and for every 'my family' or 'a bears tale', we have a good few 'father teds', 'alan partridges', 'the day today', 'brass eye' ( can you imagine that in the states? ) 'my life in films', 'fast show', and even - dare i say it? - 'green wing'. you might not like it, but you can't call it a conventional sitcom. how about 'the mighty boosh?' 'peep show'? enough diversity for you? 'the kumars'? 'meet the magoos', a new sitcom that started this week? i could go on.

so anyway, i'm glad you're making a bit more of an effort to make an actual argument, rather than just 'british comedy is crap because i'm not writing it'. bacause thats a lazy, cheap argument.

QUOTE
WE NEED DIVERSITY IN THE WRITING TEAMS- STYLES AND THE ACTUAL PEOPLE
AS THESE SHOWS ARE REPRODUCING THE SAME IDEAS AS WE AS PEOPLE HAVE FEW INSPRIRATIONS SO THERE IS A NEED TO SPREAD THE OPPURTUNITY TO MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH OR IT DRIES UP.

oh dear. just let yourself down there, didn't you?

edited for spellink

and this isn't really about ricky anymore is it? we've got a us vs uk comedy thread, you know? or, as chapman said, why not start your own thread? 'kingofcomedy's uk sitcoms suck' thread?

This post has been edited by pots: Aug 21 2005, 01:43 PM
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