After the trouncing Robocop took at the hands of Terminator, we seem to have another Verhoeven vs. B-movie face-off

STARSHIP TROOPERS
Big, loud, man vs space bug movie. A satire on facism or a beautiful people with guns film? Featuring Doogie Howser as a mind reading SS man.

PITCH BLACK
Small, quite loud, man vs space bats movie. Featuring Cole Hauser not as a mind reading SS man. Stars a man one vowel away from a gas station purchase and an ex-aussie soap star.

Starship Troopers is fun and a very decent satire to boot. Pitch Black is better though. Plus at the time it was released　who could have predicted Vin Diesel would be stinking up the cinema listings for such a long time.

Plus ive fancied Michelle Radha ever since Neighbours.

I'm in a bad mood with Verhoeven at the minute *it is real*...but I would have picked 'Pitch Black' anyway.

Great, imaginative. low-budget SF, even if it does rip off 'The X-Files'.

Just a shame this little gem's memory was sullied by the Riddick spin-off, which was everything 'Pitch Black' was a refreshing change from.



*Coughs* Radha Mitchell *Coughs*

These films are well-chosen to go head-to-head. Merciless (and very 'alien') aliens, a high mortality rate, superb special effects, b-movie sensibilities but...

...I've voted against Verhoeven again.

I like Starship Troopers. The satire is spot on, the chessy dialogue (we've gotta go back to 'P') is fun, and the design of the creatures is great. It also features the best Space battle outside of Return of the Jedi. However...

Pitch Black is a great little film. It's one of the best science fiction films of the last 10 years, because it goes back to basics and does it well. The Riddick character (while having becoming rather heroic and dull now) was a refreshing change at the time - and I was blown away by Vin Diesel, having never heard of him before. He may have become an awful caricature of himself now, but his turn in Pitch Black is charismatic, threatening and damn cool. The design of the alien creatures, although rather evolutionarily unlikely, is very different, and designed by my favourite movie conceptual artist Patrick Tatopoulos (Stargate, Dark City, Godzilla, Idependence Day), so that scores major points.

You really should get your throat looked at...


I don't remember being over the moon about Pitch Black, it was a pretty decent watch, but not worth a second viewing. I enjoyed Starship Troopers though. It kept a grin on my face for the mostpart, and had explosions and shouting.

DOOOOHH!!!!!!

and tits.

I was going to mention the tits as well.

Both good films, though Troopers was rather spoiled for me when I listened to the DVD commentary. Verhoeven is an arse.

I think Pitch Blade is a great little film. The moment when the eclipse takes full effect always sends a shiver down my spine. Pitch Black it is.

Note to self: NEVER listen to a Verhoeven commentary.

Explain?

It's hard to sum up: as I listened to the commentary I came to dislike Verhoeven quite intensely, and his explanations of what he was trying to do with the film made me like it less.

Pitch Black for me. Atmospheric, tense and bloody scary.

Starship Troopers, satire though it supposedly is, is a big, steaming pile of stupid.

Note to self: I hate whites.

Hmm, I don't think I've ever listened to a full film commentary - I think that the films I would most love to hear stuff about would actually have their magic ruined by knowing too much. And that is obviously the case with Verhoeven.

Another successful Sostie Presentation ™.

The Starship Troopers teaser trailer was good though wasn't it.



Great stuff

Pitch Black. Riddick is one of the greatest characters ever.

Pitch Black is cringeworthily arse. Keith David couldn't save it. I went for both Robocop and Troopers. I prefer films that are self-aware and have a sense of humour.

Starship Troopers was robbed at the Oscars... Ooolala... Titanic... BOLLOX!

Agreed on this one. Pitch Black was rubbish. I fail to see what's so good about Riddick... nothing stands out about him apart from that he has dodgy eyes. The Chronicles of Riddick was really poor.

(I secretly liked that one).

*Draws in breath in that "inward whistle" fashion*

Want to explain that one, whitey?

I don't think I can.

I loved Pitch Black when it came out. It was like finding a secret little gem that no one, at the time, had heard of (a bit like Bubba Ho Tep in that it got a limited US release and the DVD was purchased a long time before it got a UK release) so part of the joy of it was passing it on to friends to see. Again, its one of those films that achieves a lot within its budget. Interesting concept and well executed.

Starship Troopers I absolutely hated when I saw it at the cinema. I don't think (to my shame) I got it the first time round. Nice battles and gore though. On second viewing I did get it. In fact I loved it and also grinned my way through it. I'm sure that there are people out there talking about how much more reasonance the film has now, but to me its a great piece of entertainment with a undercurrent of Nazi bashing. And it improves on one of the great aspects of Robocop...the news reports.

I can't recall much about ST's commentary except I found it very interesting. Particularly the fact that Verhoeven actually was surprised when the audience turned against Denise Richards' character and that it also felt pity for the Brain Bug at the end.

I forgot she was in it, and thinking back i too turned against her (although thats because i think she's arse). I think i was in early high school when it first came out and therefore was too young to watch it in the pictures, but one of my mate snuck in and told us all of the cool icky stuff which increased my interest 2fold. i wasnt dissaponted eather. ST for me I suposse was like when the likes of evil dead first came out for the generation above me.

No real comment on Pitch black

My vote goes to Starship Troopers - liked the scripting (thank you Ed Neumier) and the over the top action and gore. I also enjoyed the way they trashed the source material and had large numbers of kids who looked like they should be in 90210 getting hacked to pieces by giant bugs. All that and Michael Ironside & Jake Busey. I found Pitch Black dull and I didn't like any of the characters so it's an easy choice for me.

(I liked the story about how PV made all of the crew, including himself, strip naked for the shower scenes in order to put the young cast more at ease. What a guy.)

cool i didnt realise it was a book beforehand, is it any good@?

It's rather, ahem, different from the film. There are those who will tell you it's fascist: I don't agree with that, I just think it's a book written by a man who fought in World War II and has acquired rather jaundiced views on modern (at the time) society, and the outcome of a clash of civilisations.

It seems to me it's premised on two assumptions: if you don't fight for what you have, someone else will take it from you; and society would work much better if you could make sure only responsible people had the vote. Now, I don't necessarily agree with either of these - and I'm not sure Heinlein does, either - but it makes for a great science-fiction story, if you can stand all the political grandstanding.

Verhoeven and the scriptwriter Edward Neumeier chose not to address or respond to any of the points Heinlein argued, instead they chose to turn the film into a lurid parody of them. One of the things that annoyed me about the commentary was that it became clear that neither of them had any interest in answering any of Heinlein's arguments or had even taken the trouble to understand them, instead it was all about the fascism. They seemed to think they'd greated a piece with great contemporary resonance, fascism being so widespread these days.

i think i'll give it a miss, thanks for the info thou

I've only seen Starship Troopers so I haven't voted.

I like Verhoeven. Not many Directors would turn up to the Razzies to collect there award for Woerst Director as he did for Showgirls. I think he did the original Dutch version of the Vanishing too, which is bum clenchingly scary.

Please feel free to pop over to the spoilers thread and rant a bit. That thread has kinda morphed into the PV slagging thread anyway.

Tough choice, I like both films (and, like whitey, secretly liked Chronicles Of Riddick when I first saw it). And, despite my loathing of PV, I have to plump with ST cos although Pitch Black is a taunt, interesting sci-fi thriller, ST is just fun to watch. and is the more enjoyable of the two.

No, that was George Sluizer, who also directed the Hollywood remake.

Starship Troopers is just the more fun to watch. Pitch Black actually sucked big fat donkey dick

Maybe it was because I watched it on a plane on a little screen, but Pitch Black was just a bit boring really. None of the characters did anything for me, the creatures were rather uninspired and it wasn't scary.

Starship Troopers, on the other hand, is one of the most purely enjoyable films ever made. Loads of violence, CG that still stands up as incredibly impressive today, great humour and satire and big, big guns. Its Verhoeven in his element - overblown, over-the-top and very bloody! Plus, some tits - "itsch all dese young guysh chust chillin' out an' making baybeesh".

You're not missing much with Pitch Black...

'pitch black' was okay, but just okay...

'starship troopers' was great! a huge slice of satirical fun, which, once again, shouldn't be criticised, because it differs from it's source material.

once again, verhoeven provides another good commentary and, unlike mr baxter, i thought that verhoeven did himself a lot of favours with the commentary, as he did with 'total recall' too...

And Robocop: "He's an American Jesus."

Pitch Black was IMO far superior to Starship Troopers, but the two movies are at heart very dissimilar, which makes it hard to vote. (but I did anyway. heh)

Just remembered this - Saw Pitch Black last night, was okay but Starship Troopers wins on sheer bravado.

It sure does