haha you're right. Either you like him or you don't. Ah well it was a fun argument anyway.
Damn NME.
Full Version: Stalking Pete Doherty
i know. i want to keep arguing but its pointless. gah.
Well, I watched this last night. I turned it on about a quarter of the way through, and for a while I thought I was watching some sort of clever piss take on Pete Doherty's celebrity status - the fact that Pete was involved actually made me want to give him more props - it was like something Chris Morris would've come up with. After about ten minutes, I wasn't sniggering anymore, I was staring at the tube with horror.
Oh. My. God.
Max Carlish needs professional help. Pete Doherty needs some re-hab (but we knew that already). And Pete Doherty's manager needs the uber-smugness of the year award.
Oh. My. God.
Max Carlish needs professional help. Pete Doherty needs some re-hab (but we knew that already). And Pete Doherty's manager needs the uber-smugness of the year award.
The documentary was a tragic and compelling look at obsession and delusion.
All this talk about Pete Doherty and his musical (and tabloid) significance seems irrelevant.
The documentary was about Max Carlish.
I found it fascinating if difficult to watch, the comedy Alan Patridge esque moments always outweighed by Carlish’s obvious bi-polar disorder. Some of his comments about rape vs sex as a analogy for the documentary maker/subject relationship were deeply disturbing.
The desire to be close to Pete, to be inside Pete, to be important to Pete couldn’t help but make you think that if it hadn’t been a camera it might have been a gun.
Bizarre
All this talk about Pete Doherty and his musical (and tabloid) significance seems irrelevant.
The documentary was about Max Carlish.
I found it fascinating if difficult to watch, the comedy Alan Patridge esque moments always outweighed by Carlish’s obvious bi-polar disorder. Some of his comments about rape vs sex as a analogy for the documentary maker/subject relationship were deeply disturbing.
The desire to be close to Pete, to be inside Pete, to be important to Pete couldn’t help but make you think that if it hadn’t been a camera it might have been a gun.
Bizarre
QUOTE (Jinx @ May 18 2005, 08:50 AM)
And Pete Doherty's manager needs the uber-smugness of the year award.
and a good hard slap.
QUOTE (HellsBells @ May 18 2005, 09:56 AM)
and a good hard slap.
What an idiot.
Especially since he allowed a complete nut total access to Pete no questions asked.
I'm going to start telling people I won a Bafta and see how many backstage passes I can manage.
QUOTE (Zoe @ May 18 2005, 09:55 AM)
The desire to be close to Pete, to be inside Pete, to be important to Pete couldn’t help but make you think that if it hadn’t been a camera it might have been a gun.
"I am Max. In Pete. Up Kate. I'm Max! Up Pete. Inside Kate! Inside Pete!"
The impulse to shudder met the instinct to burst out laughing.
And is it just me, or did anyone else think the self-filmed footage of him blubbing with a black eye wearing a dressing gown and skull cap was totally ripped from Tom Hanks's monologue in Philadelphia? Maybe I've just seen Spaced too many times...
QUOTE (Zoe @ May 18 2005, 08:55 AM)
All this talk about Pete Doherty and his musical (and tabloid) significance seems irrelevant.
The documentary was about Max Carlish.
The documentary was about Max Carlish.
QUOTE (HellsBells @ May 17 2005, 10:17 PM)
Max Carlish quite obviously has some pretty severe mental problems. I think more than anything this comes across in his desperation for everything to be about him. This wasn't a documentary about Pete Docherty, this was about Max's desire to be seen as important. I didn't hate him, I felt genuinely concerned for him.
yup.
having thought about this, I'd really like to see more raw footage from carlish. this documentary was edited and narrated by a third party. yes, carlish is quite obviously obsessive and even delusional. as i said earlier, the newspaper coverage of the carlish/ docherty fracas was biased in favour of carlish. i'd be interested to see where the bias lay in this documentary.
QUOTE (Zoe @ May 18 2005, 09:00 AM)
What an idiot.
Especially since he allowed a complete nut total access to Pete no questions asked.
I'm going to start telling people I won a Bafta and see how many backstage passes I can manage.
Especially since he allowed a complete nut total access to Pete no questions asked.
I'm going to start telling people I won a Bafta and see how many backstage passes I can manage.
Been there, done that and now have a restraining order from Alyson Hannigan's lawers.
I agree about the "age thing" - its not really relevant when having an opinion on Pete or The Libertines. My particular post was a reaction to an earlier one where it was indicated that people around their 30's cannot/will not understand and therefore their opinion is automatically irrelevant.
This isn't the 50's, 60's or 70's anymore. This is a time of mass media and everyone is constantly fed "new" music and celebrity and I believe that there are more people out there older than the expected "target" audience who embrace are aware or have access to new bands & music, than there used to be in previous decades.
Listened to both Libertines CDs again this morning, although I dislike Doherty I can seperate him from the music enough to still try and give them further listens...but still I don't see what the fuss is about. Maybe a little harsh earlier calling them average..Up The Bracket is OK.
ok as one of the people who had been sticking up for doherty, and calling him charismatic, i feel like i need to justify it after watching the programme. in the footage of him he was a shambling, smacked out shell of himself.
i remember [/old man] when they first burst onto the scene and they were genuinely the most exciting thing around - and pete and carl were young, pretty and charismatic. up the bracket is a good album and thats why he became so famous - what has happened since then is genuinely sad.
the argument about age is just nonsense but there was a real feeling that this is a band 'for the kids' so you can see why someone is going to used that age old teenage cry "you just don't understand me!" when you put down their favourite band.
as i said a couple of pages back, this was purely about max carlish and his desire to be famous - a famous tortured artist and guerilla filmaker - and it was voyeuristic and worrying viewing. i think the best scene was when he was giving pete the smallest guitar in the world after a gig. you could see how desperate he was and how pete was trying to get away but it needed someone else to say "just fuck off!" - and carlish still didn't get it! he thought he was the victim!
i remember [/old man] when they first burst onto the scene and they were genuinely the most exciting thing around - and pete and carl were young, pretty and charismatic. up the bracket is a good album and thats why he became so famous - what has happened since then is genuinely sad.
the argument about age is just nonsense but there was a real feeling that this is a band 'for the kids' so you can see why someone is going to used that age old teenage cry "you just don't understand me!" when you put down their favourite band.
as i said a couple of pages back, this was purely about max carlish and his desire to be famous - a famous tortured artist and guerilla filmaker - and it was voyeuristic and worrying viewing. i think the best scene was when he was giving pete the smallest guitar in the world after a gig. you could see how desperate he was and how pete was trying to get away but it needed someone else to say "just fuck off!" - and carlish still didn't get it! he thought he was the victim!
To the person who called The Libertines a fourth rate Clash, laughing my head off AT you.
The Clash are godly, and I love The Clash, but to call The Libertines a VERY good band a fourth rate Clash is a joke.
Pete and Carl were a great pairing of front men in the Libertines, you cannot help to love Pete.
He is a really nice guy, who I have had the pleasure of meeting before - only for a few minutes, but he was really nice and down to earth.
He took time out to speak to me, he is a really good bloke with a drug addiction. The only way of him getting off the drugs is by being sticking by him, and helping him through it. Not by slagging him off.
Now, to the music of the Libertines - well I think both of their albums have been very good albums. Libertines without Pete are not the same band, however Baby Shambles are extremely good.
It seems whatever Pete touches turns to musical gold, IMO anyway. He is the most charismatic man in rock and roll at the moment.
At least Pete knows what rock and roll means, he is rock and f*cking roll, and I love it.
I've had enough of these nice bands like Franz Ferdinand, Keane, Bloc Party, Futureheads, Kasier Chiefs - the list goes on. I like them, but I don't love them, they are not rock, Pete Doherty IS the epitome of ROCK and ROLL.
If you don't like him, then that's up to you, but don't criticise or judge the man without even knowing him.
The Clash are godly, and I love The Clash, but to call The Libertines a VERY good band a fourth rate Clash is a joke.
Pete and Carl were a great pairing of front men in the Libertines, you cannot help to love Pete.
He is a really nice guy, who I have had the pleasure of meeting before - only for a few minutes, but he was really nice and down to earth.
He took time out to speak to me, he is a really good bloke with a drug addiction. The only way of him getting off the drugs is by being sticking by him, and helping him through it. Not by slagging him off.
Now, to the music of the Libertines - well I think both of their albums have been very good albums. Libertines without Pete are not the same band, however Baby Shambles are extremely good.
It seems whatever Pete touches turns to musical gold, IMO anyway. He is the most charismatic man in rock and roll at the moment.
At least Pete knows what rock and roll means, he is rock and f*cking roll, and I love it.
I've had enough of these nice bands like Franz Ferdinand, Keane, Bloc Party, Futureheads, Kasier Chiefs - the list goes on. I like them, but I don't love them, they are not rock, Pete Doherty IS the epitome of ROCK and ROLL.
If you don't like him, then that's up to you, but don't criticise or judge the man without even knowing him.
i was trying my hardest not to criticise pete himself. i dislike the way that he is idolised in the music press more than anything. i personally dont think he deserves the praise he gets. but other people think he does. fair enough. to me he is not the epitomy of rock and roll at all. but that is my opinion.
on the subject of criticising without knowing him. surely you cannot truely support someone without knowing them either. its all subjective.
on the subject of criticising without knowing him. surely you cannot truely support someone without knowing them either. its all subjective.
QUOTE (Shaun @ May 18 2005, 10:35 AM)
To the person who called The Libertines a fourth rate Clash, laughing my head off AT you.
The Clash are godly, and I love The Clash, but to call The Libertines a VERY good band a fourth rate Clash is a joke.
The Clash are godly, and I love The Clash, but to call The Libertines a VERY good band a fourth rate Clash is a joke.
That would be me then. Like I said "in my opinion"...the same as in your opinion he is the epitome of rock'n'roll!!!!
Glad to see you accepted the Chas'n'Dave comparison though
QUOTE (HellsBells @ May 18 2005, 10:42 AM)
on the subject of criticising without knowing him. surely you cannot truely support someone without knowing them either. its all subjective.
Spot on HellsBells
Well I met him for a few minutes, and was lovely.
He actually came up to ME, rather than the other way round.
I had a Libertines t-shirt on and I was in London, I saw him and he approached me.
I was a bit scared when I saw him coming towards me, but he was so nice I couldn't believe it.
I hate chas'n'dave - they are queer.
He actually came up to ME, rather than the other way round.
I had a Libertines t-shirt on and I was in London, I saw him and he approached me.
I was a bit scared when I saw him coming towards me, but he was so nice I couldn't believe it.
I hate chas'n'dave - they are queer.
QUOTE (Shaun @ May 18 2005, 12:05 PM)
I hate chas'n'dave - they are queer.
well there you go! you learn something new every day.
QUOTE (Shaun @ May 18 2005, 11:05 AM)
Well I met him for a few minutes, and was lovely.
He actually came up to ME, rather than the other way round.
I had a Libertines t-shirt on and I was in London, I saw him and he approached me.
I was a bit scared when I saw him coming towards me, but he was so nice I couldn't believe it.
I hate chas'n'dave - they are queer.
He actually came up to ME, rather than the other way round.
I had a Libertines t-shirt on and I was in London, I saw him and he approached me.
I was a bit scared when I saw him coming towards me, but he was so nice I couldn't believe it.
I hate chas'n'dave - they are queer.
Don't take this the wrong way...I swear I am not taking the piss...
I met Dave of Chas'n'Dave once. Very nice bloke. Wasn't your stereotypical homosexual!
i think its great when you meet people from the bands that you love, although im usually too terriified and run away quickly. its even better when they turn out to be lovely. i just mean that unless you are friends with them, work with them or even in the band with them then its very hard to really comment on them. which, ah, i guess is what we're all doing.... damn.
I found the whole thing quite fascinating. It was just as much about the filmmaker as it was about Pete Doherty... Actually, no, this was ALL about Max Carlish. Being a fan of Pete/Babyshambles/The LIbertines/etc, I was hoping to find out a whole lot more about Pete by watching this, but this spoke volumes about Max Carlish more than anything else, and his very clear illness and obsession.
I can absolutely see what it is about Pete that draws people to him - he's talented, weird, beautiful, charismatic and just that whole aura of magic about him. But Max just went way over-board, and I can't blame Pete for bashing him really.
I can see what totally puts people off though.
I had to cringe at what Max Carlish was prepared to do to get to Pete, and how much of a clown he made of himself if it meant to get close to Pete.
And when Max gave Pete that little guitar... "Look Pete I've got something for you. The smallest guitar in the world, man!". Max was trying to so hard be cool and nice to worm his way into Pete's life. He failed so embarrasingly appaulingly, I had to bite my lip. Pete and his friends just totally threw it back in his face. It was just pathetic.
It was disturbing seeing what a state Max was in after Pete bashed him - crying into the camera. You could just see how fucked up he was, physically and mentally.
He ended up desperately trying to believe that he and Pete "had something" and were bound together somehow. Something I found that really stuck out at me, was at the near end, as Carlish was speaking kind of about WHY he is so drawn to Pete. He said something like "We all like him because Pete is more talented, sexier, cleverer and better than you EVER WERE". I think there is a strong part of Max that wants to be like Pete, and by getting closer to Pete, he's getting closer that that kind of lifestyle he so wished to have. Hah, I could be completely wrong. Just a thought.
I can absolutely see what it is about Pete that draws people to him - he's talented, weird, beautiful, charismatic and just that whole aura of magic about him. But Max just went way over-board, and I can't blame Pete for bashing him really.
I can see what totally puts people off though.
I had to cringe at what Max Carlish was prepared to do to get to Pete, and how much of a clown he made of himself if it meant to get close to Pete.
And when Max gave Pete that little guitar... "Look Pete I've got something for you. The smallest guitar in the world, man!". Max was trying to so hard be cool and nice to worm his way into Pete's life. He failed so embarrasingly appaulingly, I had to bite my lip. Pete and his friends just totally threw it back in his face. It was just pathetic.
It was disturbing seeing what a state Max was in after Pete bashed him - crying into the camera. You could just see how fucked up he was, physically and mentally.
He ended up desperately trying to believe that he and Pete "had something" and were bound together somehow. Something I found that really stuck out at me, was at the near end, as Carlish was speaking kind of about WHY he is so drawn to Pete. He said something like "We all like him because Pete is more talented, sexier, cleverer and better than you EVER WERE". I think there is a strong part of Max that wants to be like Pete, and by getting closer to Pete, he's getting closer that that kind of lifestyle he so wished to have. Hah, I could be completely wrong. Just a thought.
QUOTE (girl-wombed @ May 18 2005, 12:30 PM)
I think there is a strong part of Max that wants to be like Pete, and by getting closer to Pete, he's getting closer that that kind of lifestyle he so wished to have. Hah, I could be completely wrong. Just a thought.
Hmm, that's just made me think. A little of the Tom Ripley/Dickie Greenleaf dynamic going on there.
Perhaps we're just lucky Max didn't have an oar with him when Pete ultimately rejected him.
no, i think you've summed it up pretty succinctly there.
have we suddenly received an influx of libertines fans? were you checking out the boards anyway and joined to post a reply?
have we suddenly received an influx of libertines fans? were you checking out the boards anyway and joined to post a reply?
i actually put the name of the show from last night into google, and it took me too here!
Re- the earlier posting saying that the camera could so easily have been a gun. Definitely.
When Pete knocked Max about, he claimed Max came at him with a sword- I can now actually believe that version of events having seen what Carlish is like. He's actually obsessed, and if I was Pete I'd be worried about someone like that. Dare I say it, but Jill Dando's killer was shown to have had a similar obsession.
I actually know someone like Carlish- exactly the same mannerisms and obsessiveness- this has made me think.
Couple of highlights from it- when the crowd goes mental and Carlish is screaming 'stop the madness! stop the madness!! this is a major public health hazard, there could be millions of pounds worth of damage!'
The other where Doherty says "My Uncle, he set himself on fire", Carlish goes "My God- thats called Immolation- Self Immolation!!!', and Doherty goes "Er, nah, he set himself on fire".- pure comedy value.
But again I feel well sorry for Carlish.
When Pete knocked Max about, he claimed Max came at him with a sword- I can now actually believe that version of events having seen what Carlish is like. He's actually obsessed, and if I was Pete I'd be worried about someone like that. Dare I say it, but Jill Dando's killer was shown to have had a similar obsession.
I actually know someone like Carlish- exactly the same mannerisms and obsessiveness- this has made me think.
Couple of highlights from it- when the crowd goes mental and Carlish is screaming 'stop the madness! stop the madness!! this is a major public health hazard, there could be millions of pounds worth of damage!'
The other where Doherty says "My Uncle, he set himself on fire", Carlish goes "My God- thats called Immolation- Self Immolation!!!', and Doherty goes "Er, nah, he set himself on fire".- pure comedy value.
But again I feel well sorry for Carlish.
QUOTE (girl-wombed @ May 18 2005, 11:30 AM)
Couple of highlights from it- when the crowd goes mental and Carlish is screaming 'stop the madness! stop the madness!! this is a major public health hazard, there could be millions of pounds worth of damage!'
The other where Doherty says "My Uncle, he set himself on fire", Carlish goes "My God- thats called Immolation- Self Immolation!!!', and Doherty goes "Er, nah, he set himself on fire".- pure comedy value.
Love those bits.
The other where Doherty says "My Uncle, he set himself on fire", Carlish goes "My God- thats called Immolation- Self Immolation!!!', and Doherty goes "Er, nah, he set himself on fire".- pure comedy value.
Love those bits.
What exactly is it about Pete Doherty that inspires such rabid enthusiasm and single-mindedness in his fans? I honestly haven't seen anything like it since I was a Take That fan as a 14 year old.
I really don't know what it is.
But what I can say, is when I met him, I fell in love with him (not in a gay way). I liked the Libertines before hand, but when he spoke to me I really felt he cared about the fans. He may not, but for those three minutes he cared about the fans. I have never witness anything like this before, and this is what makes me like Pete so much.
I think the fans who worhship and say "pete you are god" are idiots.
Because in 2 months time they'll be "worshipping" someone else.
But what I can say, is when I met him, I fell in love with him (not in a gay way). I liked the Libertines before hand, but when he spoke to me I really felt he cared about the fans. He may not, but for those three minutes he cared about the fans. I have never witness anything like this before, and this is what makes me like Pete so much.
I think the fans who worhship and say "pete you are god" are idiots.
Because in 2 months time they'll be "worshipping" someone else.
Carlish was described as being diagnosed with Bipolar disorder....well I just looked up what it exactly is and...
QUOTE
Bipolar disorder is a condition that causes extreme shifts in mood, energy, and functioning. In most populations it affects around 1 percent of the population. Men and women are equally likely to develop this often-disabling illness. The disorder typically emerges in adolescence or early adulthood, but in some cases appears in childhood. Cycles, or episodes, of depression, mania, or "mixed" manic and depressive symptoms typically recur and may become more frequent, often disrupting work, school, family, and social life.
There is a tendency to romanticize bipolar disorder, especially in artistic circles. Many artists, musicians, and writers have experienced its mood swings, and some credit the condition with their creativity. However, many lives are ruined by this disease, and it is associated with a greatly increased risk of suicide.
Depression: Symptoms include a persistent sad mood; loss of interest or pleasure in activities that were once enjoyed; significant change in appetite or body weight; difficulty sleeping or oversleeping; physical slowing or agitation; loss of energy; feelings of worthlessness or inappropriate guilt; difficulty thinking or concentrating; recurrent thoughts of death or suicide.
Mania: Abnormally and persistently elevated (high) mood and/or irritability accompanied by at least three of the following symptoms (four if the mood is merely irritable): overly-inflated self-esteem; decreased need for sleep; increased talkativeness; racing thoughts; distractibility; increased goal-directed activity such as shopping; physical agitation; hypersexuality; excessive involvement in risky behaviors or activities.
"Mixed" state: Symptoms of mania and depression are present at the same time. The symptom picture frequently includes agitation, trouble sleeping, significant change in appetite, psychosis, and suicidal thinking. Depressed mood accompanies manic activation. Also known as dysphoric mania (from Greek 'dysphoria', 'dys', difficulty, 'phorós', bearer, and 'mania', mania, insanity).
Especially early in the course of illness, the episodes may be separated by periods of wellness during which a person suffers few to no symptoms. When 4 or more episodes of illness occur within a 12-month period, the person is said to have bipolar disorder with rapid cycling. Bipolar disorder is often complicated by co-occurring alcohol or substance abuse.
Severe depression or mania may be accompanied by symptoms of psychosis. These symptoms include: hallucinations (hearing, seeing, or otherwise sensing the presence of stimuli that are not there) and delusions (false personal beliefs that are not subject to reason or contradictory evidence and are not explained by a person's cultural concepts). Psychotic symptoms associated with bipolar disorder typically reflect the extreme mood state at the time. Mania is associated with unwarranted optimism, and depression with unwarranted pessimism.
There is a tendency to romanticize bipolar disorder, especially in artistic circles. Many artists, musicians, and writers have experienced its mood swings, and some credit the condition with their creativity. However, many lives are ruined by this disease, and it is associated with a greatly increased risk of suicide.
Depression: Symptoms include a persistent sad mood; loss of interest or pleasure in activities that were once enjoyed; significant change in appetite or body weight; difficulty sleeping or oversleeping; physical slowing or agitation; loss of energy; feelings of worthlessness or inappropriate guilt; difficulty thinking or concentrating; recurrent thoughts of death or suicide.
Mania: Abnormally and persistently elevated (high) mood and/or irritability accompanied by at least three of the following symptoms (four if the mood is merely irritable): overly-inflated self-esteem; decreased need for sleep; increased talkativeness; racing thoughts; distractibility; increased goal-directed activity such as shopping; physical agitation; hypersexuality; excessive involvement in risky behaviors or activities.
"Mixed" state: Symptoms of mania and depression are present at the same time. The symptom picture frequently includes agitation, trouble sleeping, significant change in appetite, psychosis, and suicidal thinking. Depressed mood accompanies manic activation. Also known as dysphoric mania (from Greek 'dysphoria', 'dys', difficulty, 'phorós', bearer, and 'mania', mania, insanity).
Especially early in the course of illness, the episodes may be separated by periods of wellness during which a person suffers few to no symptoms. When 4 or more episodes of illness occur within a 12-month period, the person is said to have bipolar disorder with rapid cycling. Bipolar disorder is often complicated by co-occurring alcohol or substance abuse.
Severe depression or mania may be accompanied by symptoms of psychosis. These symptoms include: hallucinations (hearing, seeing, or otherwise sensing the presence of stimuli that are not there) and delusions (false personal beliefs that are not subject to reason or contradictory evidence and are not explained by a person's cultural concepts). Psychotic symptoms associated with bipolar disorder typically reflect the extreme mood state at the time. Mania is associated with unwarranted optimism, and depression with unwarranted pessimism.
QUOTE (groghead @ May 18 2005, 01:17 AM)
Or an opinion? I don't know your age, but I'm guessing its a good deal older than Doherty, therefore won't be in tune with his generation. So... in a way your opinion doesn't really count, just as mine doesn't when I talk about Stone Roses, The Smiths etc.
I'm only assuming, because anyone who talks like "utter toss", is either 35+, or lives in Kensington.
I'm only assuming, because anyone who talks like "utter toss", is either 35+, or lives in Kensington.
Your 'opinion' stated that people who don't 'get' Doherty, musically or otherwise do not like music - this is utter toss.
As was your post quoted above.
Made me laugh at your foolishness, though.
Well, firstly Zoe...perfect summary IMO. Particularly with reference to the subject/object relationship. I think this is what it was about in a sense, certainly for me. Also, it's a documentary not "reality" and as such the questions raised about representation - as just cited - are as important as the subject itself. What was really intriguing were the Max Carlish moments...
As for The Libertines: Groghead's laughable summary has been pretty much dismantled by people more capable than I...my only response was open mouthed astonishment followed by silence.
I really love Up The Bracket but only as much as I might like The Scissor Sisters, Kaiser Chiefs etc etc. For me they're not the saviours of music but they do arouse such heated opinions.
As I see it The Libertines fill a convenient post Brit Pop hole and Pete Docherty represents NME Journos with the tragic/charismatic??? figure they so desire. They're morbidly cheering on his public self destruction from the sidelines. He seems to have been romanticised, as has his "glorious" drug habit as some kind of Rock rite of passage. Perhaps he is talented - I'm not convinced he's a genius though - but the reverence he's afforded would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Docherty's probably quite nice, mis-guided, quite talented but he's fulfilling the "tragic rock/pop public icon" figure...not necessarily his fault, although he's certainly self aware enough to realise his own position and role in contemporary popular culture.
Chris
As for The Libertines: Groghead's laughable summary has been pretty much dismantled by people more capable than I...my only response was open mouthed astonishment followed by silence.
I really love Up The Bracket but only as much as I might like The Scissor Sisters, Kaiser Chiefs etc etc. For me they're not the saviours of music but they do arouse such heated opinions.
As I see it The Libertines fill a convenient post Brit Pop hole and Pete Docherty represents NME Journos with the tragic/charismatic??? figure they so desire. They're morbidly cheering on his public self destruction from the sidelines. He seems to have been romanticised, as has his "glorious" drug habit as some kind of Rock rite of passage. Perhaps he is talented - I'm not convinced he's a genius though - but the reverence he's afforded would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Docherty's probably quite nice, mis-guided, quite talented but he's fulfilling the "tragic rock/pop public icon" figure...not necessarily his fault, although he's certainly self aware enough to realise his own position and role in contemporary popular culture.
Chris
QUOTE (Shaun @ May 18 2005, 12:55 PM)
But what I can say, is when I met him, I fell in love with him (not in a gay way).
Thanks for clarifying that - I'd hate to think you were one of those gays, or queer like Chas 'n' Dave.
QUOTE (superfurryandy @ May 18 2005, 12:01 PM)
Your 'opinion' stated that people who don't 'get' Doherty, musically or otherwise do not like music - this is utter toss.
As was your post quoted above.
Made me laugh at your foolishness, though.
As was your post quoted above.
Made me laugh at your foolishness, though.
Ooooh..glad you finally found time to post...what with all those shopping trips to Harrods n'all
Well now you can sleep better at night knowing I am not one of those "gays".
Yes.
I was worried you might bum me against my will and I'd catch gay.
I was worried you might bum me against my will and I'd catch gay.
QUOTE (Sostie @ May 18 2005, 01:16 PM)
Ooooh..glad you finally found time to post...what with all those shopping trips to Harrods n'all
Shopping trips?
Wotchoo talking about, Sostie?
Mo (Mr Al-Fayed to you) delivers my shopping personally to my penthouse overlooking Rotten Row.
I feel I should retract my post (some pages back now) about Carlish being a twat, I was so busy being annoyed at him that I got sidetracked and didn't realise he was bipolar until afterwards. It's a hideous illness (I know all mental disroders are, but it is decidedly nasty), and now all I can conclude is that he should be recieving help as opposed to waving cameras about and meeting rock stars
Doherty seems to be staying clean (as far as we can see) at the moment so hopefully this will be a chance to move on from the media obsession with his drug habit and back to whether the music he's making is any good. Hopefully he might be able to start turning up on time for gigs as well.
I certainly felt that both of the protagonists were in need of help and support, but I feel more for Carlish - he ain't got no millionaire girlfriend to look after him whilst he sorts himself out, and his career does seem to be fucked.
As for Doherty, I like some of the Libertines stuff, and some of Babyshamble's stuff - I don't think he's a genius, but there's definitely some talent there. It just saddens me that he has to go down the cliched rock 'n' roll route and be revered by some for fucking himself up, cos he's fucking rock 'n' roll, man!!
As for Doherty, I like some of the Libertines stuff, and some of Babyshamble's stuff - I don't think he's a genius, but there's definitely some talent there. It just saddens me that he has to go down the cliched rock 'n' roll route and be revered by some for fucking himself up, cos he's fucking rock 'n' roll, man!!
Amen to that, spot on mate.
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