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chadbeserk
Hey, as an unashamed fan of the grapplin' game, I thought a Wrestling thread was needed. Some may agree, some will disagree but whatever your thoughts, put em here.
zeden
Not watched wrestling for years now. Used to watch back in the old days of Degeneration-x and co. Fell out of watching it now. Last thing I saw was a one legged man hitting someone with his fake leg. Its rubbish now because the younger wrestlers dont have the star power, thus they rely on wrestlers that should have retired decades ago.
gulfcoast_highwayman
Damn straight.

Triple H and his backstage manouvers put a big dent in it. Rick Flair might be your mate, but the guy is acient. Stop using him!
chadbeserk
All the Good Ol' Boys putting over only their friends is what killed off WCW. Hopefully soon it'll be nipped in the bud.....but I doubt it.

Still Royal Rumble coming up soon. That's always been my favourite.
dabariocca
iwas about to say "Now that's cool!" then I read your posts. What about Kurt Angle? What about Carlito? What about Hiedenreich?
gulfcoast_highwayman
QUOTE (chadbeserk @ Jan 23 2006, 01:47 PM)
All the Good Ol' Boys putting over only their friends is what killed off WCW. Hopefully soon it'll be nipped in the bud.....but I doubt it.

Still Royal Rumble coming up soon. That's always been my favourite.
*



Yeah, but all the decent supercards are on PPV now, and I refuse to pay for them.

I used to enjoy staying up to watch Wrestlemania whilst posting on a wrestling board I frequent, it was fun. I think the lack of free supercards is what killed my love of WWE.
chadbeserk
Blame Channel 4. They buggered the whole free on Sky Sports thing up.

Kurt Angle is just amazing. Carlito isn't fit to tie up Angle's boots. As for Heidenreich, well the fact that WWE have let him go says how good he is.
gulfcoast_highwayman
Oh, Kurt is THE man. He can a good match with just about anybody. I remember him carrying Mark Henry to a decent performance once.

They try and make him a heel, but the smarks won't have it. He gets cheered however much they try and make him do evil. People just recognise that he is the best worker in the WWE.
chadbeserk
I cannot say enough good things about Kurt Angle. One of the best workers ever and probably the best technical wrestler ever. I'd love to see him and Bret Hart go at it. I remember reading this story about how when Kurt first came to WWE everyone wanted to shoot wrestle with him. One by one he took everyone on and no-one could pin him. Even Vince McMahon kept trying to have a go. It got to the point where at every opportunity Vince would appear out of nowhere and jump Angle. But he never could beat him. One time Vince jumped Angle as he came from the men's room on a plane. Angle threw Vince off and put him in a hold when Kurt was picked up from behind and choked out by the Undertaker. When he came around all the wrestlers were standing over him and Vince said "Welcome to the family". I love that story.
Jessopjessopjessop
QUOTE (chadbeserk @ Jan 23 2006, 02:05 PM)
I cannot say enough good things about Kurt Angle. One of the best workers ever and probably the best technical wrestler ever
*

I can't see how you can call any of these 'athletes' good technicians. That's just stuff the commentators spout to make it sound like a real sport - it's all so faked that even I could look like a wrestling expert with enough lycra and a ridiculous name.

My brother was a huge fan in the mid-90s when it was popular, so I used to watch it by proxy. I don't mean to attack you personally - I just cannot understand the people who take it seriously.

I don't even understand people who know it's faked and continue to enjoy it. What's to enjoy? Discuss...
WiseJoeyD
QUOTE (Jessopjessopjessop @ Jan 23 2006, 02:34 PM)
I don't even understand people who know it's faked and continue to enjoy it. What's to enjoy? Discuss...
*


I can't quite reconcile the fact it's all fake and the vivid description I got in P4 of when a wrestler had hi arm torn off...

Maybe this hushed up watershed for the sport pushed it into "camp changing rooms tiffs and ridiculous pile-driving pantomime"?!

Actually, why not have at it and put that on the posters!? Then have kids come and shout "oh no you didn't!"
gulfcoast_highwayman
QUOTE (Jessopjessopjessop @ Jan 23 2006, 02:34 PM)
I can't see how you can call any of these 'athletes' good technicians. That's just stuff the commentators spout to make it sound like a real sport - it's all so faked that even I could look like a wrestling expert with enough lycra and a ridiculous name.

My brother was a huge fan in the mid-90s when it was popular, so I used to watch it by proxy. I don't mean to attack you personally - I just cannot understand the people who take it seriously.

I don't even understand people who know it's faked and continue to enjoy it. What's to enjoy? Discuss...
*


Like all staged entertainment, there is still skill involved. Telling a story through wrestling takes talent, as it does in any medium.

Some wrestlers are more technically skilled than others. They can perform more moves, can 'sell' better, can make matches more exciting, etc, etc.

Don't ever listen to a commentator telling you a wrestler is 'technically gifted' though, they talk utter crap.

Kurt Angle is genuinely a bloody good wrester, he has the Olympic Gold Medals to prove it. He is as hard as nails.
chadbeserk
QUOTE (Jessopjessopjessop @ Jan 23 2006, 02:34 PM)
I can't see how you can call any of these 'athletes' good technicians. That's just stuff the commentators spout to make it sound like a real sport - it's all so faked that even I could look like a wrestling expert with enough lycra and a ridiculous name.

My brother was a huge fan in the mid-90s when it was popular, so I used to watch it by proxy. I don't mean to attack you personally - I just cannot understand the people who take it seriously.

I don't even understand people who know it's faked and continue to enjoy it. What's to enjoy? Discuss...
*



Wrestling (professional anyway) is no longer considered a serious sport. It now falls under the heading of Sports Entertainment, which encompasses both the serious athletic side and the scripted, "fake" side. Yes, there is a big element of the scripted side in peoples' perception of wrestling. "But it's all fake!" as a wrestling fan, I here it all the time. So is nearly everything you watch and enjoy on television. Do people berate others who watch and enjoy Coronation Street? Why not? It's fake. Wrestling used to overprotect it's "fake" identity or "kayfabe" as it's actually called. But no-one believed that Mr and Mrs Hogan decided to call their son "Hulk" or that the Undertaker really did exist. It's part of the storytelling and part of the magic. No-one believes that it's real. But that doesn't stop us enjoying it and suspending our believe when Undertaker rises from the grave or Stone Cold beats all the odds to overcome Vince McMahon or Chris Benoit finally reaches the pinnacle of the wrestling business by winning the title.

The best wrestlers can tell a great story while they are in the ring. That's what makes them special in a lot of fans' eyes. That's why when you mention people like Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley, Ric Flair, the fans starts smiling. They are masters of their trade. But it's not all that faked. If you're a three hundred pound and you fall 18 foot from the top of a cell through a table, it's going to hurt a tad. But because wrestling is not considered a serious sport, the type of injuries that are associated with everyday "sports" such as football etc have to performed with. One match for example, the Hell in the Cell confrontation between Mankind and Undertaker is a good example of this. Undertaker went into the match WITH a broken foot. This wasn't a storyline. He genuinely had a broken foot. This only came to light in Mick Foley's biography. After the match (which has since been called one of the greatest matches ever) Undertaker still had a broken foot and Mankind had a seperated shoulder, a broken rib, a hole in the bottom of his lip that he could stick his tongue through, three broken teeth and a concussion. If that's fake, I'd hate to see what it would be like if it was real.

For all the doubters, I thoroughly recommend you pick up a copy of Mick Foley's book "Have A Nice Day". It's a good read for fans and non fans alike but it gives you a perspective on what injuries a professional wrestler can pick up in this so called "fake sport".
empathy-with-beast
Good argument, but its still a "fake" sport whilst being "real" entertainment (you can tell I'm mid way through a liberal arts degree becuase I put "real" in inverted commas.).

Also I'm not convinced that all those people watching it in those giant auditoriums know its fake, some of them look a) pretty slow, and b) pretty invested in the fight.

I like wrestling though, so these aren't major digs.
gulfcoast_highwayman
A good tip is to watch it drunk. Then it really is
.........er.............real.
chadbeserk
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Jan 23 2006, 03:44 PM)
Good argument, but its still a "fake" sport whilst being "real" entertainment (you can tell I'm mid way through a liberal arts degree becuase I put "real" in inverted commas.).

Also I'm not convinced that all those people watching it in those giant  auditoriums know its fake, some of them look a) pretty slow, and b) pretty invested in the fight.

I like wrestling though, so these aren't major digs.
*



This is true but the same could be said about the sad souls who campaigned to "FREE THE WEATHERFIELD ONE!" when Deidre Barlow was jailed in Coronation Street. There are always people in every enjoyable medium who take it just that little bit too far.
gulfcoast_highwayman
I posted THIS in the 'silly' boards, but it illustrates the point.
chadbeserk
LOL! That's great. Though I know a couple of people who had tears of joy at the end of Wrestlemania 20 when Benoit and Guerrero hugged (in a rugged manly way) in the middle of the ring. I didn't. Not in the slightest. I just had something in my eye that's all.
Sean of the Dead
I used to watch it when the Rock was there, despite his stupid catchphrase, and I haven't watched it since.

'If you smell what the Rock is cooking!'

We do what?
empathy-with-beast
QUOTE (gulfcoast_highwayman @ Jan 23 2006, 03:56 PM)
I posted THIS in the 'silly' boards, but it illustrates the point.
*



thats exactly what I was thinking of.
soundsofdespair
I used to watch wrestling all the time, and yeah, thank you to channel 4 for messing up the programming. I'm personally tierd of defending wrestling, because people just aren't willing to see how entertaining it can be. When it's done right, it really is amazing. Like the TLC at wrestlemani x-7, or cactus jack at the royal rumble. How can falling on the floor be fake? Its peoples own fault their missing out?
chadbeserk
Can't believe they put the title back on that hack, John Cena. Made me choke on my Coco Pops!

Rey Mysterio pulled a blinder though.
Jumpin Jack Flash
its more about the drama and the storylines u have 2 admit it is engrossing i just recently picked up the thread again after eddie grerro died coz i wanted to see whats changed,in my view they never really replaced the rock, someone who had that electricity although batistas quite good
chadbeserk
Batista will always be a poor man's Brock Lesnar. He's more likeable than Brock, who admittedly was a prick and a half. But he ain't got the presence or the charisma of Brock, let alone the Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H etc.
Jessopjessopjessop
Chad - thanks for the considered, thought-out reply. But, as with Beasty, I still would find it hard to watch as any form of entertainment, whether it's deliberately 'out' as a scripted event or not. And it's comments like this:
QUOTE (chadbeserk)
Can't believe they put the title back on that hack, John Cena.
that are the reason why. It's the pomp and showmanship and dressing up theat ridicule any skill the competitors have. Why be outraged by a descision made by whoever the ruling bodies of wrestling make?

Your comparison to Coronation Street is interesting, though. I cannot defend anyone who staged a Free Deidre Rachid campaign, because they are idiots with too much spare time.

But if you really like fighting - a genuine contact fight between individuals skilled in their own martial disciplines, why not watch K1 or something? These are superhard, superskilled athletes who genuinely hurt each other to win. That's entertainment. It has almost the same spectacle as wrestling, only they don't dress up in bright coloured lycra and snarl at the camera about people 'goin' DOWN!'.
Jumpin Jack Flash
wot eva happened to brock lesnar? i just got back into it and a loada people have disappeared i stopped watchin around the time of chuck and billy and rico u fancy givin me a rundown since then or would it take 2 long?
gulfcoast_highwayman
Brock wanted to chase his boyhood dream of being an American footballer, so the WWE granted him a contract release (with a no-compete clause), their argument being, they had spent millions in pushing him, why should he be able to wrestle for another company when they've been good enough to let him go.

His dream turned out to be just that, he proved too old to start a new career. Realising he now needed to make some money and resalising he could only wrestle for the WWE he had talks with Vince McMahon about a return but he wanted a lighter schedule and the same money. Vince refused.

Brock then went to court to get the 'no-compete' clause declared illegal. After a protracted battle he won and now wrestles in Japan.
Jessopjessopjessop
QUOTE (Jumpin Jack Flash @ Jan 31 2006, 11:34 AM)
wot eva happened to brock lesnar? i just got back into it and a loada people have disappeared i stopped watchin around the time of chuck and billy and rico u fancy givin me a rundown since then or would it take 2 long?
*

Stop writing in text speak!
chadbeserk
QUOTE (Jessopjessopjessop @ Jan 31 2006, 11:10 AM)
Chad - thanks for the considered, thought-out reply. But, as with Beasty, I still would find it hard to watch as any form of entertainment, whether it's deliberately 'out' as a scripted event or not. And it's comments like this:
QUOTE (chadbeserk)
Can't believe they put the title back on that hack, John Cena.
that are the reason why. It's the pomp and showmanship and dressing up theat ridicule any skill the competitors have. Why be outraged by a descision made by whoever the ruling bodies of wrestling make?

Your comparison to Coronation Street is interesting, though. I cannot defend anyone who staged a Free Deidre Rachid campaign, because they are idiots with too much spare time.

But if you really like fighting - a genuine contact fight between individuals skilled in their own martial disciplines, why not watch K1 or something? These are superhard, superskilled athletes who genuinely hurt each other to win. That's entertainment. It has almost the same spectacle as wrestling, only they don't dress up in bright coloured lycra and snarl at the camera about people 'goin' DOWN!'.
*



I guess it's about being "hip" to it. Or being a "smark" as I think the term is. When I was a kid, I loved watching Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior. But as I grew older, I saw through the "pomp and showmanship" and realised as wrestlers, they technically sucked balls. Now when someone asks me who my favourite wrestlers are I'm more likely to say Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe etc. Wrestlers who for me, are technically brilliant. I still have a soft spot for Hogan the same way I have a soft spot for a cheesey film from my childhood like "Pump Up the Volume" or "No Retreat No Surrender". The Ultimate Warrior is just plain shite. I guess you have to be able to look through all the "glitz" and look for the style beyond the substance. Some people, like yourself, are put off by the decoration and that's okay. That's just the way it is. My reasoning for hating the idea of John Cena being given the title is the same way older (and wiser) fans felt at the time when Ultimate Warrior was champion. Me? I thought it was brilliant. But now I'm a bit more "wise" to the business, it's a bit more annoying. It's the style over substance issue again.
chadbeserk
Lesnar was schedueled to face Goldberg at Mania 20. It was hyped as one of the biggest matches on the card, but after finding out that the company were not intending to put the title back on him but instead planned on him returning the favour and jobbing to the recently revived Undertaker after Mania, he decided to follow his "dream" to play in the NFL, despite the fact that he had never played football in school or college. He told WWE this with hardly any notice. As punishment, WWE made him job to Goldberg in the worst match at Mania20. You know it's a bad match when Goldberg is carrying the match. Lesnar just could not be arsed. And didn't take to kindly to the fans chanting "Fuck you, Lesnar!" for his perceived betrayal to the business. It's a shame to be honest and his leaving was Smackdown's loss.
ronlogan1977
The only wrestling I get to watch is Sumo. Go Kotuooshu Go.
Jumpin Jack Flash
ah well thankyou very much, that clears that up. Its weird to watch it now just say once because there are so many new superstars its hard to keep track. like for example what happened to Rikishi or even so far back as road dogg or jeff hardy??? did jeff hardy die? thats the rumour i heard thats probobly bol*ocks
Blind I/O
QUOTE (Jumpin Jack Flash @ Jan 31 2006, 06:40 PM)
bol*ocks

laugh.gif

Does that make it not a swear, if you say bol-ocks rather than bollocks? Or was the rumour from an edgy new girlgroup?
Jumpin Jack Flash
an edgy new girl bad? like kandifloss?!?!? wif a 'k'
Blind I/O
It was a sort of pun on B*witched, but maybe that was before your time. Or maybe I'm just not funny.

And it's "with"
Jumpin Jack Flash
b*witched before my time!!!! yeah thats true but i still know of them. they sang that song about the weather
Jessopjessopjessop
Please use capital letters. You're not pots.
chadbeserk
There were very substantial rumours that Jeff Hardy was battling a drug addiction (heroin was metioned quite a bit). WWE wanted to help him, as did his brother Matt, but Jeff refused to admit that he had a problem. He was given 3 chances to go to councelling but each time he no showed. WWE released him from his contract. Jeff left the wrestling business, saying he had no passion for it and started a band. The band was shit so he went back to wrestling but instead of WWE he went to TNA where he makes a respectable living no-showing PPVs.
Zoe
QUOTE (Jessopjessopjessop @ Feb 1 2006, 09:42 AM)
Please use capital letters. You're not pots.
*


Has pots got exclusive rights to the non use of capital letters on this forum? Or is he allowed to do it because you like him and it gives him a rakish charm.

The next step is surely to have his name legally decapitalised like e.e. cummings did.
dandan
QUOTE (Jessopjessopjessop)
Please use capital letters. You're not pots.


capitals, shmapitals...
Jessopjessopjessop
QUOTE (Zoe @ Feb 1 2006, 04:05 PM)
Has pots got exclusive rights to the non use of capital letters on this forum?
*

Stinker does it too*, so they can wrestle for the rights to do it. But at least they use punctuation and proper sentences. The capitalisation is just the tip of the iceberg here.

*EDIT: AND DANDAN rolleyes.gif
Zoe
QUOTE (Jessopjessopjessop @ Feb 1 2006, 04:08 PM)
Stinker does it too, so they can wrestle for the rights to do it. But at least they use punctuation and proper sentences. The capitalisation is just the tip of the iceberg here.
*


Ahhh so it's only not allowed when it's indicative of a wider problem.
Zoe
QUOTE (Jessopjessopjessop @ Feb 1 2006, 04:08 PM)
*EDIT: AND DANDAN  rolleyes.gif
*


Could you please stop shouting.
WiseJoeyD
I heard there was an Arab wrestler who carried out a jihad on one of the other wrestlers before promptly being sacked.

I don't get, with the staged nature of it, how someone in the upper echelons of UPN thought an arab character, who sang the Adhan and proclaimed death to Western culture, was a good idea!!

There's a thing on YTMND of his slightly line crossing act

http://hassanninjas.ytmnd.com/
Jessopjessopjessop
QUOTE (Zoe @ Feb 1 2006, 04:10 PM)
Ahhh so it's only not allowed when it's indicative of a wider problem.
*


Note my earlier request:
QUOTE (Jessopjessopjessop @ Jan 31 2006, 11:50 AM)
Stop writing in text speak!
*


Small moves, Sparks.
Jumpin Jack Flash
Is my writing really bad? if you dont like it then i will try and change it.
lots of love, Jack x
Starscream`s Ghost
Ahem.

Foley is, and forever will be, God.

Ithankyou.
chadbeserk
No, no, no. Foley is Good. So sayeth the man himself.
Jumpin Jack Flash
How many Foley incarnations was there? i know of cactus Jack and mankind but i heard there was another one? am i wrong? and did Rikishi die of heart disease?
gulfcoast_highwayman
Foley's other incarnation was Dude Love, a persona he developed in his school days.

Rikishi isn't dead, as far as I know. He wrestles in Italy.
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