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Jubei
There were lot of comments from Gene about sticking around 'cause I need you' and also comments that Alex should stay near Gene. I agree. I think it'll be something like her way of staying alive until medical asistance can come and find her and sort her out. If she wakes up to early, she'll still be dieing on the boat. By staying there and fighting through it, she can 'come back' when she's in hospital and recovered somewhat.

I really don't see her staying in the 80s though, like Sam stayed behind. Her daughter is far too much of a draw to pull her back.

Perhaps Gene and co are like Guardian angels or something. Admittedly unwitting shouty bastard guardian angels. Perhaps we'll discover that Gene died some time ago, or has been in a coma for the last 30 years, and helps people in a similar situation.

Also, the evil clown, is that from out of the test card or something? I seem to remember a clown in the Test Card image.

Perhaps not, although 'a' clown and a little girl (Molly) mirrors the test card contents to a certain degree.
Withnail
QUOTE (Jubei @ Feb 8 2008, 11:10 AM)
Also, the evil clown, is that from out of the test card or something? 


Bowie wore that clown outfit in the 'Ashes to Ashes' video!
Jubei
QUOTE (Withnail @ Feb 8 2008, 11:15 AM)
Bowie wore that clown outfit in the 'Ashes to Ashes' video!
*

Ah I see.
Raven
QUOTE (Outatime @ Feb 8 2008, 12:12 AM)
I couldn't get into it.  I thought the characters were like a send up of themselves, and I get that they're supposed to be because she knows she's imagining them but the whole thing just seemed a bit silly, especially the speedboat shootout.
*


I think that pretty much sums up how I feel about it as well - it wasn't bad, but it just didn't hook me in the same was as Life on Mars did because it felt a little too OTT in places which is something I don't think Life on Mars did, even at its most surreal.

I hadn't fully considered that they were parodying 80's cop shows, although I did take the shoot out at the end to be a nod to the A-Team, but it makes more sense in that light.

The use of George and Zippy was amusing, but I don't really think of them as being iconic of the eighties, but then again I can't think of a good alternative!
Sostie
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 11:03 AM)
Also I miss Annie.
*


What are the chances she may turn up in Ashes....with Sam's child!
empathy-with-beast
Sam's going to turn up too isn't he? If we're honest.
Raven
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 11:03 AM)
Also I miss Annie.


Yeah, I do too (it would've been nice to know what happened to her, perhaps that is yet to come, but I don't think they should spend too much time referencing LoM).

And I don't think we've seen the end of Sam either, Ray's "they never found his body" comment leaves that door wide open . . .

ETA:

QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 11:32 AM)
Sam's going to turn up too isn't he? If we're honest.
*


Pipped at the post!
Starscream`s Ghost
QUOTE (Raven @ Feb 8 2008, 11:24 AM)
I did take the shoot out at the end to be a nod to the A-Team, but it makes more sense in that light.
*


Well let's face it, the amount of bullets shot at Layton, and he didn't die?

Classic A-Team.
Zoe
I didn't watch it.

But these discussions represent a continuity nightmare!

I'm not sure I can bear to watch it now. After the writers were so explicit about explaining exactly what was going on in 'Life on Mars', this series makes no sense at all! I'll watch it on on demand, and try to switch that part of my brain off.

I predict Montserrat Lombard will become a fanboy favourite. She is adorable in 'Love Soup'.
empathy-with-beast
Guardian Review

QUOTE
And Keeley Hawes, as DI Alex Drake, is awful. She may be totally shagworthy and have a cracking pair of puppies (those are one of Hunt's sidekick's words, not mine, before you start complaining), but, as a copper, even a psychologist copper, she's very unconvincing. She's neurotic and unpredictable, moody and constantly out of breath, and just really irritating. She lies on the bonnet of the Audi, to compare curves, and again on the sofa to give Hunt a private show. I'm sorry, that's not a senior police officer (except perhaps in her male colleagues' fantasies), that's, well, an actor. She should tear a leaf out of Dame Helen's police notebook.


I think I'd go along with that, but then Sam was a little bit all over the place to begin with and maybe she's just not playing the time travel jet lag thing very well and will improve.

I did find it annoying that she didn't change out of her miniskirt and stockings for most of the episode.
Zoe
Constantly moody? She can't be as bad as Sam was in series 2. I don't think he cracked a smile once.

Isn't it the fish out of water, central character's job to be moody, disapproving and self-righteous?
empathy-with-beast
Yes, but not border line hysterical as well. I want her to be tougher, she seems to have been cast on the grounds that she's very attractive rather than on the grounds that she can exhibit any steel. You don't really believe that she's a professional police lady.
Starscream`s Ghost
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 11:48 AM)
You don't really believe that she's a  professional police lady.
*


Sam wasn't much different in 1.1 of LoM though, was he?

All up in the morgue, talking to himself.
Sostie
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 11:40 AM)
I think I'd go along with that, but then Sam was a little bit all over the place to begin with and maybe she's just not playing the time travel jet lag thing very well and will improve.
*


She is going to deal with the situation totally differently to Sam because she is in a way aware of what is going on. Sam had no way of knowing what was really happening, Alex thinks she does and believes she can get home by solving a case. She's going to be more pro-active and in turn possibly quite irritating than Sam was.

I predict the Mole will be an important part of the story.
empathy-with-beast
I'm factoring in the mentalness, she doesn't act with authority when talking to the other police men.

But as I said above I don't think I can properly judge until I've seen a few more episodes.
Sostie
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 11:54 AM)
she doesn't act with authority when talking to the other police men.
*


Because she doesn't think they exist?
Starscream`s Ghost
QUOTE (Sostie @ Feb 8 2008, 11:55 AM)
Because she doesn't think they exist?
*


Yeah, "Gene", "Chris" and "Ray" aren't real.

Apparently.
Zoe
They're not real!

We have been told this.

What's amazing is she imagines them exactly the same as Sam does. Those must have been some detailed descriptions.
Outatime
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 11:40 AM)
I did find it annoying that she didn't change out of her miniskirt and stockings for most of the episode.
*


My Mum said that, it did seem a bit odd. I suppose just an opportunity to flash Keeley Hawes' legs.
Sostie
QUOTE (Starscream`s Ghost @ Feb 8 2008, 11:56 AM)
Yeah, "Gene", "Chris" and "Ray" aren't real.

Apparently.
*


Not to her. She still thinks she's going to wake up in the boat.
Withnail
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 11:40 AM)
I did find it annoying that she didn't change out of her miniskirt and stockings for most of the episode.
*


I didn't. wub.gif
Jubei
I'm putting her erratic behaviour down to shock at appearing in Sams 'fictional' reality. She does display moments of leadership during the episode. And the fact that she is in Sams fictional reality can be partly explained by the fact that she has not only been studying his case notes, but was talking about it with her daughter just minutes before she was shot.

Also, she doesn't remember them in exactly the same way. Firstly they're in the 80s. And they have 8 years of backstory as well. I think, despite the fact that it was apprently neatly tied up at the end of LoM series 2, this series will attempt to make us question the truth of what we thought we knew at that point. Plus, it would be a bit stupid to just get new actors in and play the parts differently just to highlight the fact that this is her imagination. She even describes Gene, Ray and Chris' basic character traits at one point, saying 'you're the... this, you're the... that'.

I get that this is in part a vehicle to get Gene Hunt and Co back on TV, but I won't pre-judge it for that.

Also, it didn't occur to me that when they said Sams body wasn't found it was a clear invitationo to bring him back at some point. Stupid me.
Zoe
I completely agree with you.

I'm only annoying myself, because I haven't watched it yet. If it's any good my disbelief will be suspended as soon as I start watching. Hypothetically it's a nightmare, but if it works, I won't care.
Jubei
Should we be spoilering all this, if people (Zoe) haven't (hasn't) watched this yet?
Zoe
I guess people can avoid the thread if they don't want it spoiled. Once it's aired, I think it's fair game.
Raven
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 11:48 AM)
Yes, but not border line hysterical as well. I want her to be tougher, she seems to have been cast on the grounds that she's very attractive rather than on the grounds that she can exhibit any steel. You don't really believe that she's a  professional police lady.
*


I'd agree with that as well.

I can understand her being frightened by the charging clown etc, but she did seem to fall apart quite regularly throughout the episode.

We'll just have to see how it pans out . . .
gulfcoast_highwayman
It has potential, I'm prepared to stick with it.

Most of my favourite stuff has been mentioned, but I'm glad to see Montserrat Lombard doing more on TV. I've fancied her since the Egg commercial.

And I loved that when Chris shot the bloke's foot, the bloke was wearing Espadrilles. Nice attention to detail.
Wife Of Rolex
Everyone's already pretty much said most of what was on my mind about the first episode so I won't repeat.

I'll just add that I enjoyed it for the most part but had a couple of niggles here and there. In particular the boat to machine gun fire bit with Gene. There really needed to be a shot (<camera shot) of him getting out of the boat before he fired the machine gun. It looked like he'd docked, climbed out and got into position in a heartbeat.

If a man was waving a gun about and holding someone hostage on the South Bank there's no way the public would be allowed so close and with such a lame cordon. It made Molly's ability to get so close to Layton look particularly contrived. It would've been more believable if it happened outside Alex's home; somewhere in the Docklands area to tie it in with the boat and the Dome. And her just cheerily waving goodbye to her on Millennium Bridge after a moment of trauma like that just seemed a bit...eh?

Otherwise, I liked it. Some great touches throughout. The clown is much scarier than the test card girl, it has that 80s sharpness that contrasts with Life On Mars' 70s fuzz and Montserrat Lombard's haircut was brilliant.



On a separate note, regarding what happened to Annie, I thought she actually died when he was 4 years old but lived on in Sam's imagination. The explanation for why Sam went back to 1973 was that as a child he witnessed his dad beating a woman to death in the woods. The woman was Annie and Sam had remembered her. In his coma he brought her to life when his mind went back to that moment in time. Annie died 33 years before Sam's accident.

That's how it came across to me, anyway.


QUOTE (Sostie @ Feb 8 2008, 12:06 AM)
I predicted Vienna & I Fought The Law

He only got Vienna

4-2 win.
*


Did you pick up on the poom-poom, poom-pooms from It Feels Like I'm In Love by Kelly Marie in the opening sequence?

If you did, that's an extra packet of Opel Fruits.
Raven
QUOTE (Wife Of Rolex @ Feb 8 2008, 04:50 PM)
I'll just add that I enjoyed it for the most part but had a couple of niggles here and there. In particular the boat to machine gun fire bit with Gene. There really needed to be a shot (<camera shot) of him getting out of the boat before he fired the machine gun. It looked like he'd docked, climbed out and got into position in a heartbeat.


That jarred with me as well, but after reading the above I'm wondering if that was an intentional parody of 80's cop shows, which quite often featured poor editing.
empathy-with-beast
But wouldn't Annie live on in Drake's imagination too?
Wife Of Rolex
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Feb 8 2008, 05:30 PM)
But wouldn't Annie live on in Drake's imagination too?
*


Depends how descriptive Sam was in his tape/report. He could've given really detailed descriptions of Gene, Chris and Ray but only mentioned Annie by name. Sam might've jumped off that roof when he was only halfway through talking about his experience and not got to Annie just yet, so Alex wouldn't really have a perception of her.
curtinparloe
QUOTE (Wife Of Rolex @ Feb 8 2008, 06:12 PM)
Depends how descriptive Sam was in his tape/report. He could've given really detailed descriptions of Gene, Chris and Ray but only mentioned Annie by name. Sam might've jumped off that roof when he was only halfway through talking about his experience and not got to Annie just yet, so Alex wouldn't really have a perception of her.
*


Or more simply, as Sam died in the line of duty (in the 70s), Annie wouldn't necessarily want to hang around. She might even have quit to have kids with him beforehand.
Wife Of Rolex
QUOTE (curtinparloe @ Feb 8 2008, 06:21 PM)
Or more simply, as Sam died in the line of duty (in the 70s), Annie wouldn't necessarily want to hang around. She might even have quit to have kids with him beforehand.
*


But he did the tape before he when back to stay in 1973 forever. He went back to the point he left her and the others in the tunnel when he woke from his coma. In real terms Annie was dead and never met Sam. In fantasy terms, she and Sam didn't get together until he died so he wouldn't have made a record of the relationship and no-one would've known about it. Including Alex Drake.
sleeping_pirate
I wasn't really taken that by it. And the lead actress really annoyed me.
curtinparloe
QUOTE (Wife Of Rolex @ Feb 8 2008, 06:28 PM)
But he did the tape before he when back to stay in 1973 forever. He went back to the point he left her and the others in the tunnel when he woke from his coma. In real terms Annie was dead and never met Sam. In fantasy terms, she and Sam didn't get together until he died so he wouldn't have made a record of the relationship and no-one would've known about it. Including Alex Drake.
*

There are many possibilities.
Wife Of Rolex
QUOTE (curtinparloe @ Feb 8 2008, 06:53 PM)
There are many possibilities.
*


I know.


But I'm right.

tongue.gif
curtinparloe
QUOTE (Wife Of Rolex @ Feb 8 2008, 06:57 PM)
I know.
But I'm right.

tongue.gif
*


You say that, but I'm the one in the coma tongue.gif
maian
I skipped between this and Buzzcocks, so I'll have to watch it again to geat a real feel for it, but what I did see I liked. It was entertaining and, although I wasn't really that taken with Drake as a character, I think there's some potential for her.

I get the feeling this series will be more about Gene, though, since interviews with the creators have hinted that there is some mystery behind him and why he appears in both Sam and Drake's minds. I'm hoping that they do look into this as the series progresses since it would add an extra dimension to it that it doesn't seem to have at the moment.

Still, as a tongue-in-cheek homage to 80s cop shows it's still quite fun and I'll be watching to see what happens.

I also reckon Sam will show up at one point, but that's just a guess.
Wife Of Rolex
QUOTE (curtinparloe @ Feb 8 2008, 07:02 PM)
You say that, but I'm the one in the coma tongue.gif
*


Well then I'm the Test Card Girl.
curtinparloe
QUOTE (Wife Of Rolex @ Feb 8 2008, 07:04 PM)
Well then I'm the Test Card Girl.
*


Don't try and trick me with your Life On Mars knowledge!
Wife Of Rolex
QUOTE (curtinparloe @ Feb 8 2008, 07:06 PM)
Don't try and trick me with your Life On Mars knowledge!
*


Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
curtinparloe
QUOTE (Wife Of Rolex @ Feb 8 2008, 07:07 PM)
Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
*


Is that a handbag moment, or are you doing an impression of the testcard? wink.gif

By the way, episode 1 is on again on BBC4 on Thursday, just after episode 2 is on BBC1.
Wife Of Rolex
QUOTE (curtinparloe @ Feb 8 2008, 07:15 PM)
are you doing an impression of the testcard? wink.gif
*


You worked it out. You may now come out of your coma.


Just don't go on any roofs.
curtinparloe
laugh.gif
Almond_Adam
Or to any meetings!
Everlong
QUOTE (maian @ Feb 8 2008, 07:03 PM)
I also reckon Sam will show up at one point, but that's just a guess.
*


Possibly. The 'Body was never found' line could be important.

And you'll probably think i'm nuts, but i reckon maybe gene's world could be real in some sort of spiritual form, like a purgatory. Within the show's fiction of course, i'm not having crazy ideas about real life..

Nah, thats a crap theory, ha.
maian
I think there's something to that theory, though. Maybe it's not purgatory but there does seem to be something about that world which suggests that they aren't mere hallucinations.
Zoe
I liked her doing the inverted commas sign every time she said 'Gene'.

I can't see much mileage in this set-up. It feels a bit like what it is, a desperate attempt to get these characters back on TV.

That said, the first episode was always going to be the trickiest, the idea will seem less implausible as they're given the free reign to run with it, and it has the potential to be very entertaining.

I have faith in the writers that they'll pull off some decent TV, but to be honest it does take something away from completeness of 'Life on Mars'. And with the question of Sam's situation solved, Alex's is a poor imitation that's going to struggle to generate and maintain audience interest and sympathy.

The most sensible way to enjoy it seems to be to ignore the wider questions and the plot holes, and enjoy whatever culture clash fun there is to be had.

I hope they don't bring Sam back into it. The mind boggles.
Jon 79
I liked the show.
The 1st episode wasn't as good as Life On Mars,... but then I guess we knew it couldn't have been. Looking forward to the next one.

...oh & the down side of the series for me: ... I'll not be able to watch Bowie's Ashes To Ashes video anymore without getting freaked out. ohmy.gif


wink.gif
Zoe
I can't of been the only person going:

Alex... Alex, it's me. 1981 David Bowie, from the music video Ashes to Ashes
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