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shinyelvenqueen
Clerks vs. Shaun...
Clerks II vs. Hot...
Anywhichwayyouwantto.

Both provide the duo awesomeness of their iconic films, we all know what they are. But who do you like?
Sostie
Edgar. Might have been closer if Clerks II wasn't so terrible.
Zoe
For 'Clerks', 'Mallrats' 'Chasing Amy' and 'Dogma' it's Smith by a country mile.

'Clerks II' is still fucking awful mind.
empathy-with-beast
Chasing Amy is an awful film with some good jokes in it, Clerks was ahead of its time and Mallrats' Stan Lee scene has almost never been met in its geek joy moments. Although I think Smith has made more awful films than Wright I also think he's made more innovative ones, so I guess it's him.
Hobbes
i avoided clerks II so as not to pollute my like of kevin smith. chasing amy is a great movie and dogma is one of my favourite films ever (i also enjoy jay and silent bob strike back as a guilty pleasure if we're honest) and for those 3 films alone he wins it.
logger
Wright, right? RIGHT!
curtinparloe
Clerks was ok and I quite liked Dogma. His other films are more of the same thing, really.

Shaun of the Dead was ace and I loved Hot Fuzz. He'd have to do three Hot Fuzz sequels with the same characters and similar jokes to lose this one...


In my opinion.
AusChick
Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy, etc were all a bit of fun in their day - but never really big favourites of mine.

I love Wright's passion for his work. Plus his tastes and influences are often very similar to mine which is one of the reasons his stuff really appeals to me.




Wright by a country mile for my personal tastes.
Sostie
Well, I misread and didn't know it was all Kevin Smith's work under consideration here. Can't really compare the two really, particularly considering one has made so many more films, and their films and direction is deifferent.
maian
Can't really compare them since Edgar hasn't done enough stuff yet and whilst I enjoy most of Smith's films (I quite like Clerks II, not sure why) I wouldn't say I love any of them. Clerks is still good and Mallrats never fails to make me laugh, but Shaun and Hot Fuzz are both very strong films. At the moment I'd go for Edgar based on what he has done and what he could be capable of.
GundamGuy_UK
QUOTE (Sostie @ Mar 27 2007, 12:24 AM)
Can't really compare the two really, particularly considering one has made so many more films, and their films and direction is deifferent.
*


Indeed. It's not quite apples and oranges, but they're certainly different fruit in a way.

Smith is getting my vote because he doesn't deserve to be so far behind.


Maybe us being on an Edgar Wright media-based message board makes us biased.
empathy-with-beast
I think that we're comparing them because they're both heavy on pop cultural referencing, although Smith comments whilst Wright homages. When he's done Ant Man we might be able to compare a little more effectively.
stinketta
QUOTE (GundamGuy_UK @ Mar 27 2007, 12:35 AM)
Maybe us being on an Edgar Wright media-based message board makes us biased.
*


I'm sure it does.

I still voted for Edgar though. What little Smith that I've seen goes over my head a bit.
Sostie
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Mar 26 2007, 11:40 PM)
I think that we're comparing them because they're both heavy on pop cultural referencing, although Smith comments whilst Wright homages.
*


In that respect I'd compare Wright to Tarantino
melzilla
QUOTE (maian @ Mar 26 2007, 11:34 PM)
At the moment I'd go for Edgar based on what he has done and what he could be capable of.
*


I'm with Maian on this....I do love Kevin Smith's stuff, but even he admits that it's dick and fart jokes that have got him where he is, not that there's anything wrong with that. Seeing as though Edgar has only made 2 professional movies, then maybe it would only be fair to compare him to Kevin Smith after Mallrats? If so, I'd say they were pretty close...but as we've subsequently seen, Smith has gone on and off the boil more recently, whereas I predict a lot more from Mr. Wright in future.
empathy-with-beast
You know what? I sort of don't like Edgar Wright movies. Well, it's not like I dislike them, it's just I'm not bothered about them. Hott Fuzz especially is just a lot of vaguely referency jokes and only a month or so it fades from my memory in much the same way as Confetti did except it was actually funny at the time. At least at the time when you watched Clerks there was this thing where you felt that no one had represented the people that you saw on screen before, in much the same way as Spaced did. I don't think any of his films push back any boundries. But then I would only really make that claim for Clerks and possibly Mallrats.
Omniscia
Wright, hands down.

As for Smith, if I wanted to listen to a bunch of nerdy stoners prattle on for hours on end I'd enroll in art school.
empathy-with-beast
Almost none of the central characters are stoners. The stoner characters are always sidelined figures. With the exception of Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back of course which is an awful film with a few redeeming jokes.
Sostie
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Mar 27 2007, 12:03 AM)
Almost none of the central characters are stoners. The stoner characters are always sidelined figures.
*


And thank fuck for that...I hate stoner comedies. Mainly because stoners aren't funny. Except The Dude.
melzilla
QUOTE (Omniscia @ Mar 26 2007, 11:58 PM)
Wright, hands down.

As for Smith, if I wanted to listen to a bunch of nerdy stoners prattle on for hours on end I'd enroll in art school.
*


QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Mar 27 2007, 12:03 AM)
Almost none of the central characters are stoners. The stoner characters are always sidelined figures. With the exception of Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back of course which is an awful film with a few redeeming jokes.
*


At art school, however, you can't bloody move for nerdy stoners laugh.gif
Zoe
I’m with Lewis on Wright's films in a sense, I think they’re very good, but I don't think they're that special and I certainly don't have the affection for either of his features that I have for 'Spaced'.

'Shaun of the Dead' is a solid four star film, entertaining and very rewatchable. 'Hot Fuzz' I still haven't totally formed my opinion on, and it didn't make a massive impact on me, though it was entertaining. I think I'll like it more on a second viewing when I can be less analytical.

'Clerks' is a great piece example of a passion piece, it's all about the quality of the script and the love that's been poured into it. 'Mallrats' is one of my favourite films of all time. I appreciate that it's not the most acclaimed of Smith's output; but I was blown away when I first saw it. So funny, so clever, so entertaining and so chock full of references I appreciated. If there was ever a film made for a 14 year old me, that was it. I also love 'Chasing Amy' and really appreciate the leap Smith made from his previous two films to focus more on character and relationship (not that 'Mallrats wasn't hella romantic, Brodie Bruce is my dream boyfriend). It's a clever, unusual and very witty romantic comedy that's also vulgar and balls out funny. I saw 'Dogma' at the cinema when I was at university, I dragged a group of my first year friends there and I was so proud I did. After raving about Smith to them for months they too really enjoyed what was again a massive progression for him. I think it's a real and satirical comment on organised religion, it's as daring as any film has been on the subject since 'Life of Brian'.

At that point (and bearing in mind I had only seen one Wes Anderson film at this stage) I was confident in Kevin Smith being my favourite director, and that defined my film tastes to some extent. 'Jay and Silent Bob' came out and I thoroughly enjoyed it, although I recognised that it was a massive indulgence on Smith's part. I tempered any disappointment, that it marked essentially a massive step back for him as a director, with the thought that if someone gave me 30 million dollars, I might also make what amounted to a big in joke for all the fans that supported me for the last ten years - and the fact that it had a lot of great jokes in it.

"You wouldn't last a day on 'The Creek'"

'Jersey Girl' came along and suddenly it was the hardcore fans that were bitching and whining. I don't think it's a bad film, and it was certainly more of a structured and accessible piece of cinema than it's predecessor; but essentially it's only OK.

'Clerks II', however, was really bad. I'm not sure if Smith is suffering from the curse of the fanboy and is trying to get back to making films for his hardcore at the expense of quality, but it was just a mess and insulting to an audience's intelligence. He needs to worry less about the Jay and Bob fans (characters he claimed to have finished with in 2001) and worry more about making decent films.

It seems my initial faith in him was misplaced and, unfortunately, a little juvenile.

These are both directors that inspire fanaticism and I hope Wright doesn't fall into the same trap as Smith and try and please the fans at the expense of quality and originality. 'Shaun of the Dead' and 'Hot Fuzz' are both good, but they're also both very similar. I hope he has the balls to branch out, and not end up making 'Shaun of the Dead II' in ten years time.
empathy-with-beast
QUOTE (Zoe @ Mar 27 2007, 02:18 AM)
I’m with Lewis on Wright's films in a sense, I think they’re very good, but I don't think they're that special and I certainly don't have the affection for either of his features that I have for 'Spaced'.
*


And you don't like Spaced that much either, you told me you really ought to be on The Sopranos fan forum.

It'd be called Whacked Out

I should have been able to come up with something better than that.

No, wait, wait it'd be called The Sub-pranos.

No, that sounds like a sex site.

The So-pranos because everybody there was so into the Sopranos

And then you could have a site for people who thought it was alright called the so-so-pranos.

I,I'll go to bed now shall I?
Zoe
I love 'Spaced', but it's not my favourite show of all time.

It's top ten.

Maybe I should join a 'Sopranos' forum, I bet the male members are dead tough.
thirtyhelens
Have to qualify this one based on how each CV stands up to repeat viewings, in which Edgar wouldn't merely take the cake, he'd take the whole buffet.

Though I do love Chasing Amy quite a lot. Of the Smith output that I own, I've actually watched Clerks: The Animated Series more often than anything else.
empathy-with-beast
QUOTE (Zoe @ Mar 27 2007, 02:49 AM)
Maybe I should join a 'Sopranos' forum, I bet the male members are dead tough.
*



They'd definitely be better dressed, all that expensive leisure wear rather than us lot pitifully mimicing late nineties skate clothing on our good days. Nicer shoes and hair too probably, and no beards.
GundamGuy_UK
QUOTE (thirtyhelens @ Mar 27 2007, 02:51 AM)
Of the Smith output that I own, I've actually watched Clerks: The Animated Series more often than anything else.
*


Who is driving? Bear is driving - how can that be?!

Your Honor, the podrace was pretty cool....


I think Clerks II is a decent flick myself. The only Smith film I've not seen is Jersey Girl, because of all the flak it gets. One day I'll see it cheap and decide to get it myself, because I don't like missing a film purely because everyone says it's crap, and I tend to find redeeming things in films and like ones most fans don't (I enjoy The Phantom Menace, bar Jar-Jar, for example).
thirtyhelens
QUOTE (GundamGuy_UK @ Mar 26 2007, 05:59 PM)
Who is driving? Bear is driving - how can that be?!
*


"Everybody disco dancing! I am having very good time!"

He did beat Arrested Development to the Judge Reinhold gag by a good several years.
Julie
QUOTE (thirtyhelens @ Mar 26 2007, 09:09 PM)
"Everybody disco dancing!  I am having very good time!"

He did beat Arrested Development to the Judge Reinhold gag by a good several years.
*


Ugh! I had the Mock Trial theme song in my head the whole time I was writing my mock RNs this morning.
thirtyhelens
Is it wrong to fancy Judge Reinhold? Still?

I'd like to approach his bench, is all I'm saying.
Julie
QUOTE (thirtyhelens @ Mar 26 2007, 09:37 PM)
Is it wrong to fancy Judge Reinhold?  Still?

I'd like to approach his bench, is all I'm saying.
*


I'd swear on his bible?

I've got nothing...
thirtyhelens
QUOTE (Julie)
I'd swear on his bible?


Sustained! *gavel*
Omniscia
Mock trial, with J. Reinhold! Mock trial, with J. Reinhold!
mousespider
QUOTE (Omniscia @ Mar 26 2007, 09:59 PM)
Mock trial, with J. Reinhold! Mock trial, with J. Reinhold!
*


My name is Judge. tongue.gif

And I have to go with Edgar. Because not only is he so talented he would be a cooler nicer guy than Kevin Smith.
melzilla
QUOTE (mousespider @ Mar 27 2007, 03:37 AM)
My name is Judge.  tongue.gif

And I have to go with Edgar.  Because not only is he so talented he would be a cooler nicer guy than Kevin Smith.
*


I dunno, Edgar is obviously lovely, but I really like Kevin Smith's 'evenings with', just because he is very open, down-to-earth, funny and articulate, and I would possibly identify with the things Smith talks about more, but then I guess he has a few years' experience on Edgar in regard to speaking publicly and talking about his movies, background, influences,etc.
Zoe
I'm not sure a comparitive study of two directors should really be a personality contest anyway.
rabbit57i
Kevin Smith is overrated as a filmmaker. He doesn't know what to cut & what to keep. He's not bad at what he does, but he not any better than any other Tom, Dick or Harry around.
Zoe
Smith could definitely do with a decent editor, and his screenwriting is better than his directing.

I still think his films are better though.
melzilla
QUOTE (Zoe @ Mar 27 2007, 03:39 PM)
I'm not sure a comparitive study of two directors should really be a personality contest anyway.
*


I don't either, was merely responding to MS's point and pointing out that it would be unfair to assume that someone would be nicer than someone else based on their work or what little else one may have seen or heard about them....unless Mousespider knows Kevin Smith well and he is actually a twat?! happy.gif
Zoe
Well, if we're getting personal, I can't stand his nepotistic casting of his big-eared wife.
empathy-with-beast
I don't know I enjoy things which feature women with one obvious physical flaw. I used to have the raging horn for that girl out of The Moondial.
Crutch
Ed is in a higher league of directing, me thinks. But Smith became a quite big part of my adolesence so, I had to vote for him. I love them both movies.
ipse dixit
QUOTE (melzilla @ Mar 27 2007, 03:54 PM)
....unless Mousespider knows Kevin Smith well and he is actually a twat?!  happy.gif
*
From what I've heard he's lovely. And I look forward to finding out for myself later this year. Sometimes my job really rocks.
Stella MM
Edgar's the better filmmaker, clearly.

Kevin Smith's a great writer but, like Rabbit pointed out, he's not that great at actually putting together a film. And he's very self-indulgent and very lazy.

Edgar's neither of those things and seems to have a much better understanding of, and love of, the mechanics of film.
melzilla
QUOTE (ipse dixit @ Mar 27 2007, 04:29 PM)
From what I've heard he's lovely. And I look forward to finding out for myself later this year. Sometimes my job really rocks.
*



oooo you lucky monkey!....I've only ever heard good things about him from people who have met him so I hope you can verify it. For making some of my favourite movies over the years I will always love the guy, but I think Edgar has great film directing potential...only time will tell.
logger
Although I'm a fan of the Smith, to me he will always represent what went wrong with the American indie scene, (thank fuck for Wes Anderson), lazy pop-culture referencing faux post modernism. Wright has the potential to be one of this countries all time great directors, name another current British director who is better, see you can't.

I'm so drunk
Zoe
Shane Meadows, Mike Leigh, Danny Boyle, Christopher Nolan?
logger
See, you can't.
Zoe
'Better' is a subjective term.
logger
It always comes down to a question of semantics. when I'm right
Hobbes
QUOTE (empathy-with-beast @ Mar 27 2007, 12:03 AM)
With the exception of Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back of course which is an awful film with a few redeeming jokes.
*


jay and silent bob has some of my favourite jokes of any smith film, though i can appreciate why people would hate it. chris rock only has about 30 lines in the whole film but is comedy gold.

QUOTE (Zoe @ Mar 27 2007, 01:18 AM)
and the fact that it had a lot of great jokes in it.

"You wouldn't last a day on 'The Creek'"
*


what was up with pacey stealing joey away from you? i would've drowned his ass in the creek and shit.

QUOTE (Zoe @ Mar 27 2007, 03:39 PM)
I'm not sure a comparitive study of two directors should really be a personality contest anyway.
*


and anyone who watched the video i posted of kevin smith talking to a college auditorium and telling his story with real style and charm will know that he's not a dickhead. seems fairly down to earth to me. he still dresses like a tramp anyway, and at least that's a homage, if nothing else.

QUOTE (logger @ Mar 27 2007, 09:56 PM)
Wright has the potential to be one of this countries all time great directors, name another current British director who is better, see you can't.
*


wright, as has been mentioned, is a very solid director who makes entertaining popcorn films which have some nice gags. however, i would argue that his continuous use of the same cast, whilst making him seem nice as a person, highlights his inability to change tack. if he could make a serious film with the same cast, that would be great, but i can only be really impressed with wright as a director when he looks elsewhere than just his famous mates. if he can attract real talent outside of previous uk contacts (usually people from spaced or shaun) then it will show his progression.

but come on, he's hardly a visionary.
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