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Raven
There's still Robo Rory remember.

I hope it will be something a little more clever than that though.
NiteFall
I reckon the Rory Auton (Rorton?) will end up somehow helping out.
Everlong
The Pandorica must re-open at some point, thousands of years later. Wonder if Auton Rory can hold on that long.

The doctor pops out and is greeted by Rory, clutching Amy's skeleton.

I just realised, didn't River Song have a Time Agent vortex thingy? (Vortex Circulator?) Maybe she escapes the exploding TARDIS and heads back.
Raven
They still haven't answered how Amy doesn't remember the Daleks, have they?
Raven
~1,500 people on line at Gallifrey Base at the mo!
monkeyman
QUOTE (Raven @ Jun 19 2010, 08:34 PM) *
I was wondering whether the Doctor could already be in the box as well, up until the point where the Romans became Autons. After that it was:



ETA:

The aliens with the teeth, were they Weevils? (from Torchwood).



QUOTE (Everlong @ Jun 19 2010, 08:43 PM) *
I joked that it'd be the doctor, but didn't think it would be him, until he said the "the most feared being in the universe" line then I realised it would be him. I expected it to open to show the doctor rather than him just being put in.

I really do wonder how they'll get out of this one. River has been exploded, Amy dead, and the doctor locked in the Pandorica. Normally Doctor Who cliffhangers have someone escape or able to help, but what the hell is gonna happen here?Moffat is a genius.

Speaking of which "Steven Moffat" "pandorica opens" "Matt Smith" and "Amy pond" are all trending topics on UK twitter. I think this is the first time I've seen anything Doctor Who related trending.

Glad it wasn't just me that entertained the thought!

QUOTE (Raven @ Jun 19 2010, 09:28 PM) *
They still haven't answered how Amy doesn't remember the Daleks, have they?
Hopefully all will be revealed in the final episode. I imagine the Daleks wiped part of her mind or something?

Atara
Hadn't the cracks/a previous episode sort of explained that? Maybe the Doctor just mentioned it being weird or somesuch, had everyone forgotten the Daleks attacking?

I think I just assumed prolonged exposure to the crack in her wall had messed with her head.

I'm wondering about why the date on Rorys badge was from years before it should be. And many other things...
Zoe
Her life doesn't make any sense.

That was the best line of the episode.

And the most telling, I suspect.
Wife Of Rolex
QUOTE (Zoe @ Jun 19 2010, 07:40 PM) *
I'm presuming every one and his wife guessed the Doctor would be going in, rather than something coming out, which begs the question - why did the Doctor fall for it?


I didn't. Which made the twist especially enjoyable to watch.


I reckon the answer is Amy is still 7 and this is a very big game of Amy's Choice, which is why she doesn't remember the Daleks.

Or something.
Everlong
QUOTE (Wife Of Rolex @ Jun 20 2010, 07:17 AM) *
I didn't. Which made the twist especially enjoyable to watch.


I reckon the answer is Amy is still 7 and this is a very big game of Amy's Choice, which is why she doesn't remember the Daleks.

Or something.


I did have a similar thought, not that she is still 7, but everything there comes from things she had when she was 7 and she met the doctor. Maybe something feeding through the cracks.

She thanked Santa for dolls and fish (possibly other stuff I don't remember) and in the vampire episode the baddies are fish things. And Autons are like dolls 'cos they're plastic and not independent. Maybe that's it. Obviously the Pandorica stuff and Romans were explained last night.
Raven
Interesting how they had references to most of the episodes this series last night except the one with the Dream Lord - I hope that doesn't turn out to be the explanation.
PrincessKate
QUOTE (Raven @ Jun 20 2010, 12:08 PM) *
Interesting how they had references to most of the episodes this series last night except the one with the Dream Lord - I hope that doesn't turn out to be the explanation.

That's what occurred to me, too.
I loved it, though. Everything, the return (if they kill him again I will be really very angry, that would be the third time.)
And it was probably just us, but the double bluff expecting the Romans to be Cybermen, when they were Autons. Fabulous.
Zoe
I have to admit, Kate, he did look pretty fit as a centurion. I like a man in an outfit.
Everlong
I thought the voice in the TARDIS might have been him, but it sounded quite a bit like Davros.

Whatever it is, it's framing the Doctor big time!

EDIT: Reply about the Dream Lord.
Raven
QUOTE (Everlong @ Jun 20 2010, 01:04 PM) *
I thought the voice in the TARDIS might have been him, but it sounded quite a bit like Davros.


I thought that as well.
Wife Of Rolex
I'm basing my theory on the premise that in Amy's Choice she had to die in the dream in order to live in reality. Remember during the sleeping angels episode when The Doctor told her to keep her eyes shut but it seemed a bit out of sequence? Maybe that was The Doctor telling her to stay asleep to keep the dream going. Remember Rory's id badge in the first episode? If Amy's still 7 then she met the doctor in 1998. If Rory was her childhood friend then the date on his id badge is more likely to be his birthday.

So technically, it wouldn't actually have been all a dream as it's real but in the construct of a dream through a real alien's weapon of attack.


Yeah?

Yeah?



I've been thinking too hard.
maian
Well, that was a bit brilliant.

I was misdirected into believing that something was in the Pandorica (though as soon as the Romans turned I twigged what was going on) and I had a massive grin on my face when it was revealed. In fact, I had a big grin on my face for pretty much the whole episode. The last ten minutes, though, were something else. The intercutting between The Doctor being dragged to the Pandorica whilst Amy "died" was just beautiful, particularly considering Rorton's battle with his programming right before it happened, and The Doctor's pleas going unheeded by his enemies were some of the best dramatic moments the show has ever put out.

I'm really not sure how they can resolve this in a satisfactory way, but then again I'm not the one writing it. Here's hoping Moffat can deliver a fitting finale to a series which has, bar a few less than stellar episodes, been amazing.
widowspider
QUOTE (monkeyman @ Jun 19 2010, 07:28 PM) *
I actually thought (stupidly) the/a Doctor might be in it. I figured there'd be some tricksies but didn't think he'd be the one put in until the soldiers revealed themselves to be fake

Me too.

QUOTE (Atara @ Jun 19 2010, 09:57 PM) *
Hadn't the cracks/a previous episode sort of explained that? Maybe the Doctor just mentioned it being weird or somesuch, had everyone forgotten the Daleks attacking?

I think I just assumed prolonged exposure to the crack in her wall had messed with her head.

I'm wondering about why the date on Rorys badge was from years before it should be. And many other things...

What did I miss about the date on Rory's badge? Is that from a previous episode?

QUOTE (Zoe @ Jun 19 2010, 10:31 PM) *
Her life doesn't make any sense.

That was the best line of the episode.

And the most telling, I suspect.

Yes indeed. I loved his delivery of that line.

QUOTE (Zoe @ Jun 20 2010, 11:51 AM) *
I have to admit, Kate, he did look pretty fit as a centurion. I like a man in an outfit.

I also agree with this. First time I thought Darvill was fit.

All in all, an ace episode - loved it! Well excited to watch the finale next week.
Zoe
http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/...-doctor-who.php

Moffat claims the ID badge is just a mistake.

I imagine it's supposed to be his DOB.
monkeyman
I assume the bit in the second Weeping angels episode with the Doctors coat was a wardrobe mistake as well?
Sostie
Good episode on Saturday, that did leave me wanting more.

I toyed with the idea that Amy might be a sort of "Dawn" from Buffy. Let's hope not.


QUOTE (Henry Krinkle @ Jun 16 2010, 12:23 PM) *
I'm with the people less than happy to see River Song back.

The way she keeps on alluding to future events...Is she the Doctors wife? Is she his Mum? Is she future Amy Pond?


I thought it was pretty much established early on that she was his future wife.
maian
QUOTE (monkeyman @ Jun 21 2010, 08:54 AM) *
I assume the bit in the second Weeping angels episode with the Doctors coat was a wardrobe mistake as well?

I reckon that's deliberate and will come back in next week. It's one thing to use a badge with an incorrect date, but to do something like that, where the script specifcally calls for The Doctor to lose his jacket, seems too big to be a simple gaffe. Also, in that scene he talked to Amy about remembering things, which had little to do with the events in that episode but seems to tie in with the idea of Amy's mind constructing a reality.
Jimmay
This is the first series of Doctor Who that I have watched in it's entirety and I've really enjoyed pretty much every episode. I didn't see the Doctor getting locked up coming until it was pretty much happening which was excellent. I've no idea how it's all going to be wrapped up but I can't wait to find out.
m0r1arty
QUOTE (monkeyman @ Jun 21 2010, 07:54 AM) *
I assume the bit in the second Weeping angels episode with the Doctors coat was a wardrobe mistake as well?


There's also another mistake which appears in The Pandorica Opens:




Look at the door to the Tardis.

Not saying it's relevant - but it might be.

-m0r
Everlong
QUOTE (monkeyman @ Jun 21 2010, 08:54 AM) *
I assume the bit in the second Weeping angels episode with the Doctors coat was a wardrobe mistake as well?


I reckon at some point the doctor escapes the Pandorica somehow, and goes around fixing things. In episode one, I thought the shadow in Amy's house was Prisoner Zero, I'm beginning to think it was the Doctor. I wonder if River slipped him the time agent watch thing. Same with him turning up with another jacket when he just lost it.

EDIT: That's pretty interesting m0r. Hmmm, fake TARDIS? But which one? ooo.
bigfatrich
Was the voice which said "Silence will fall" any clue to the last episode? Was it someone/something familiar?
Henry Krinkle
QUOTE (Everlong @ Jun 19 2010, 08:01 PM) *
What the feck was that thing with the teeth? I've not seen that before.

Do you mean this?
If so, it was in Love and Monsters.

QUOTE (Raven @ Jun 19 2010, 09:28 PM) *
They still haven't answered how Amy doesn't remember the Daleks, have they?

I assumed it was the same reason people didn't remember that ginormous Cyber King from The Next Doctor, or the Earth being transported to the Medusa Cascade in Journeys End - that time was being unwritten, and the Dalek Invasion of Earth had been unwritten with it.
Basically, anything huge and alien related from the RTD era was being reset.

QUOTE (Raven @ Jun 20 2010, 12:08 PM) *
Interesting how they had references to most of the episodes this series last night except the one with the Dream Lord - I hope that doesn't turn out to be the explanation.

Me too. It was all a dream is the weakest get out this side of Vanilla Sky.
That said, The Lodger wasn't referenced at all.
Maybe Cordon is a future incarnation of the Doctor, and that's why he looked so shocked when the Doctor headbutted him and brought his memories back. Maybe the Cordon Doctor'll show up and rescue the Matt Smith Doctor from the Pandorica. Come on Moff, give the fans and the public what they want and make Cordon a future version of the Doctor that will show up and save the day!

QUOTE (maian @ Jun 21 2010, 12:30 AM) *
I'm really not sure how they can resolve this in a satisfactory way, but then again I'm not the one writing it. Here's hoping Moffat can deliver a fitting finale to a series which has, bar a few less than stellar episodes, been amazing.

Please don't let it be another Last of the Timelords.
It won't be. They won't just have the Doctor start flying and do magic and not really explain it. They'll have a reasoned and logical resolution to all this.

QUOTE (m0r1arty @ Jun 21 2010, 11:17 AM) *
There's also another mistake which appears in The Pandorica Opens:

Look at the door to the Tardis.

Not saying it's relevant - but it might be.

-m0r

Good eye, Sir.
You spotted the mistake on the ID badge too as I recall. Do you comb these episodes frame by frame whilst noting everything down in a big pad for continuity comparrison later? Or are you, in fact, a future version of the Doctor, and you'll turn up next week to rescue the Smith Doctor from the Pandorica? Come on Moff, give the people what they want etc etc etc...
blackcherry
QUOTE (bigfatrich @ Jun 21 2010, 11:37 AM) *
Was the voice which said "Silence will fall" any clue to the last episode? Was it someone/something familiar?


Davros? That would be an interesting end, if he released the Doctor to ensure the survival of the Daleks
Everlong
QUOTE (Henry Krinkle @ Jun 21 2010, 12:15 PM) *
Do you mean this?
If so, it was in Love and Monsters.

Good eye, Sir.
You spotted the mistake on the ID badge too as I recall. Do you comb these episodes frame by frame whilst noting everything down in a big pad for continuity comparrison later? Or are you, in fact, a future version of the Doctor, and you'll turn up next week to rescue the Smith Doctor from the Pandorica? Come on Moff, give the people what they want etc etc etc...


Ahh, I remember the thing now! Good memory HK!

As for m0r, he be very eagle eyed. And I thought last week that Av looked like the doctor, and it is the bugger, all pandorica'd up!
Serafina_Pekkala
Doctor Hoot
Everlong
QUOTE (Serafina_Pekkala @ Jun 21 2010, 01:26 PM) *


Ha, Tennant and Troughton owls look quite like them.

This pic linked in that article is good too.. Heehee at Romana II, Ace, and Rose..

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/image...0e2de2b970c.jpg
blackcherry
QUOTE (Serafina_Pekkala @ Jun 21 2010, 01:26 PM) *


Awwwww. I love that. I'm going to print it and put it on the fridge in my new home smile.gif
Raven
QUOTE (Henry Krinkle @ Jun 21 2010, 12:15 PM) *
Do you mean this?
If so, it was in Love and Monsters.


Yeah, I realised that whilst watching it again last night, it was a Hoix.
bigfatrich
QUOTE (blackcherry @ Jun 21 2010, 01:01 PM) *
Davros? That would be an interesting end, if he released the Doctor to ensure the survival of the Daleks

That's who I thought it sounded like.
Raven
Someone I've not seen mentioned by anyone, anywhere - so far - is that River had been through the Pandorica opening when she met the Doctor earlier in the series, and she was in jail for killing a good man.

I wonder how that is going to feed in . . .
blackcherry
QUOTE (Raven @ Jun 21 2010, 03:00 PM) *
Someone I've not seen mentioned by anyone, anywhere - so far - is that River had been through the Pandorica opening when she met the Doctor earlier in the series, and she was in jail for killing a good man.

I wonder how that is going to feed in . . .



There was something she said that made me think that she opens the Pandorica to get him out but I can't for the life of me remember what it is.

Also, her comment of "See you when the Pandorica opens" in a previous episode could have more than one meaning now.
widowspider
QUOTE (blackcherry @ Jun 21 2010, 03:16 PM) *
Also, her comment of "See you when the Pandorica opens" in a previous episode could have more than one meaning now.

However, current River is earlier than the River of the previous episode, she tells Amy not to tell her about what had happened before. So she clearly survives whatever it is because she meets them later on in her own timeline.
Raven
^ And we also know where and when River Song dies!
widowspider
QUOTE (Raven @ Jun 21 2010, 04:58 PM) *
^ And we also know where and when River Song dies!

We do? (I'm clearly well unobservant or I forgot that it happened in an episode.)
Everlong
QUOTE (widowspider @ Jun 21 2010, 06:17 PM) *
We do? (I'm clearly well unobservant or I forgot that it happened in an episode.)


Yep, in "Forest of the Dead" with Tennant's Doctor. She ended up with a sort of afterlife anyway inside a computer.
widowspider
QUOTE (Everlong @ Jun 21 2010, 05:23 PM) *
Yep, in "Forest of the Dead" with Tennant's Doctor. She ended up with a sort of afterlife anyway inside a computer.

Ohhh yeah.
Henry Krinkle
QUOTE (Raven @ Jun 21 2010, 03:00 PM) *
Someone I've not seen mentioned by anyone, anywhere - so far - is that River had been through the Pandorica opening when she met the Doctor earlier in the series, and she was in jail for killing a good man.

I wonder how that is going to feed in . . .

She was in prison at the start of the episode, so I'd have guessed that the 'killing of a good man' incident has already happened in her timeline. Perhaps another story for another time.

QUOTE (widowspider @ Jun 21 2010, 03:50 PM) *
However, current River is earlier than the River of the previous episode, she tells Amy not to tell her about what had happened before. So she clearly survives whatever it is because she meets them later on in her own timeline.

Except, we already saw that a future version of a person existing doesn't mean they can't die in the present (Future Rory, standing and waving with Future Amy, only to vanish when present day Rory died). Time is in flux, and isn't a straight line of cause and effect. Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey.
Part of me thinks they won't kill off River Song and undo her timeline though, and part of me thinks they have no choice, as Alex Kingston won't be around forever, and she still has a lot of adventures with the Doctor to cover.
Raven
QUOTE (Henry Krinkle @ Jun 21 2010, 09:42 PM) *
She was in prison at the start of the episode, so I'd have guessed that the 'killing of a good man' incident has already happened in her timeline. Perhaps another story for another time.


Or she was in prison for something else, I have a feeling she's been a bit a naughty before!

QUOTE
Part of me thinks they won't kill off River Song and undo her timeline though, and part of me thinks they have no choice, as Alex Kingston won't be around forever, and she still has a lot of adventures with the Doctor to cover.


I doubt we'll ever see all of that, and quite right too!
Henry Krinkle
QUOTE (Raven @ Jun 21 2010, 10:39 PM) *
I doubt we'll ever see all of that, and quite right too!


Before the start of this series, I assumed there were lots of off-screen adventures between the 10th Doctor and River Song. The way she reacted in Silence in the Library indicated she had experience of the 10th Doc and that it took her a while to realise it was a younger version of that Doctor than she was used to. But the way he reacted to her in Time of Angels indicated that it was their second meeting in the Docs timeline (or still early days for them).

If the Doctor is going to get close enough to River Song to tell her his name then there need to be a lot more adventures together. I'm not saying we need to see those adventures on screen, but they need to be established to have happened. Between series. In spin off media. Somewhere else. Make her the new Bernice. Whatever.

Or they can kill off River Song and have her adventures with the Doctor wiped from time, with her intimate knowledge of the adventures they did have, but now won't have, becoming a paradox. The beauty of a time travel show where time is in flux and effect can occur even if cause doesn't is that continuity can be ignored in favour of not boring us with the back story that's probably better left to the imagination than watched played out.
Shack
QUOTE (Henry Krinkle @ Jun 22 2010, 08:17 AM) *
Before the start of this series, I assumed there were lots of off-screen adventures between the 10th Doctor and River Song. The way she reacted in Silence in the Library indicated she had experience of the 10th Doc and that it took her a while to realise it was a younger version of that Doctor than she was used to. But the way he reacted to her in Time of Angels indicated that it was their second meeting in the Docs timeline (or still early days for them).

If the Doctor is going to get close enough to River Song to tell her his name then there need to be a lot more adventures together. I'm not saying we need to see those adventures on screen, but they need to be established to have happened. Between series. In spin off media. Somewhere else. Make her the new Bernice. Whatever.

Or they can kill off River Song and have her adventures with the Doctor wiped from time, with her intimate knowledge of the adventures they did have, but now won't have, becoming a paradox. The beauty of a time travel show where time is in flux and effect can occur even if cause doesn't is that continuity can be ignored in favour of not boring us with the back story that's probably better left to the imagination than watched played out.


Or she could wake up in the shower...
Everlong
QUOTE (Henry Krinkle @ Jun 22 2010, 08:17 AM) *
If the Doctor is going to get close enough to River Song to tell her his name then there need to be a lot more adventures together. I'm not saying we need to see those adventures on screen, but they need to be established to have happened. Between series. In spin off media. Somewhere else. Make her the new Bernice. Whatever.


Indeed, put her in books and audio books. I wouldn't mind her making an appearance or two next year either (providing fluxy-time didn't kill her on Saturday) but they should tell her story via the other media. Would be interesting for anyone who wants to know more about River Song (personally I like the whole mystery of it and finding out how they met might spoil it a bit).
maian
They could always use different actresses for the role. We don't know at what point in her life River met The Doctor, so they could have different women play the role at different points in her life. But, yes, I'd rather that she has only an occasional part of the series (unless Moffat plans to introduce her as a companion later on) with embellishments in other media, rather than someone who is forced into stories just for the sake of it.
Zoe
It would have been much better had we never seen her again. The story was very poetic as it was, first time he met her/last time she ever sees him, now it's just annoying. Like the new Sherlock Holmes not written by Conan Doyle where they imagine what happens in the mysteries Watson and Holmes mention in passing in the original stories.

River and the Doctor's entire relationship, including if, how and when she became his wife, should have been left offstage and to the audience's imagination. She was an example of how time travel affects the Doctor's life and served that purpose well, bringing her back has created lots of unecesasary questions and rendered the character a smug know-all.

"Oooooh look at me, I can pilot the Tardis".
Oh, eff off.

Much like the weeping angels, she should have been left where she was.
Raven
I don't know, I think having someone around who really knows the Doctor around is interesting.

I like the "old married couple" way they play off of each other, and the fact that she puts the Doctor on edge because he doesn't know what is going on or who she is.

Moffat is just expanding on his own creation, I don't have a problem with that.
Everlong
It seems the further we go along, the less smug she gets as it gets earlier in their relationship for her.

Which is okay as she only annoys me when she's being all smug, which was only really in the library episodes. She was slightly smug in the angels episodes but less so. Plus the doctor was all "The Pandorica isn't real!", and I kind of like it when someone else (not just river) proves him wrong. It's like "hey, the doctor isn't all knowing!" which is good because RTD built him up to be like this all knowing god person.
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